Middle Schoolers Whose Bus Drove by a Dead Body 50 Feet Away Are Offered Counseling

After a bus full of middle schoolers in Raytown, Missouri, drove past a person dead from suicide about 50 feet away, the principal did what principals feel they must do in the wake of anything.

She sent a letter home.

.

Among the suggestions to parents, regarding their kids: “Provide positive, non-violent activities to help them cope.”

As if:

1 – The kids couldn’t otherwise cope.

2 – Parents were about to suggest some evil, violent activities to help them cope.

3 – Parents need pointless pablum from public officials about how to raise their children.

The letter also warns that the kids may suffer from loss of appetite, weepiness, sleeplessness, stomach pain and aching muscles — a list that sounds like it was lifted from the side effects label on a bottle of Haldol.

Fox 4 News found the Facebook post of a mom from the school. She said

that the school called her and ‘rambled.’

“Finally he got it out and said your child seen a dead body today and he’s with the grievance counselor,” said one mother on Facebook. “……they made like it was in the street or something!!!”

Grief counseling?

Is there any aspect of human life we think kids can handle without intensive intervention?

How about surviving a  school that thinks adolescents are never going to recover from anything ever, including driving by a body on their bus ride?

This photo was so helpful and great, I had to “borrow” it from Fox 4 in Missouri.

 

 

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98 Responses to Middle Schoolers Whose Bus Drove by a Dead Body 50 Feet Away Are Offered Counseling

  1. M May 26, 2017 at 11:59 am #

    Guess we shouldn’t take kids to family funerals and or funeral homes or viewings. *eyeroll*

    It appears the body was covered by a tarp. The kids didn’t actually “see” anything, anymore than if they had driven by a house or an ambulance with a dead person inside. And by middle school, they’ve probably seen their share of TV shows and movies that depict dead people in a much more gruesome fashion.

  2. Workshop May 26, 2017 at 12:23 pm #

    Yeah, if this is the next generation that we’re raising, I gotta get an escape plan put together. I don’t think I want my children, who will be able to cope with difficult stuff, to have to be the leaders of these snowflakes.

  3. Christopher Byrne May 26, 2017 at 12:23 pm #

    I’m from an Irish family. My parents were only children but there were many (to my 5-year-old mind) ancient relatives dying on a regular basis when I was a kid. Funerals (and Irish wakes) were a regular feature of growing up. We weren’t shielded from them. One of my earliest memories is being lifted up to kiss a dying great great Aunt as she lay in her bed. Dead bodies were a fact of life, not something that would provoke trauma.
    My father spent much of his career as the head of a middle school. He would have had no truck with this.
    What’s so funny is that many of the kids on the bus probably wouldn’t have known about this until the school blew it up.

  4. Dienne May 26, 2017 at 12:23 pm #

    Two days ago we were told that a 16-year-old student being told the very real possible consequences of his actions (which said consequences he then heard in the next breath were not going to be imposed) “caused” that student to commit suicide. Today we’re being told that 11 to 13-year old students should be tough enough to suck it up if they see the dead body of someone who has committed suicide. Could someone please provide me a list of what students should be tough enough to suck up and handle vs. what could possibly cause suicide, and at what ages? Thanks.

  5. Kirsten May 26, 2017 at 12:25 pm #

    When I first glanced at the headline my brain turned this into a school bus being driven by a dead body for 50 feet! Like maybe the driver died and the bus continued another 50 feet with only a dead body at the wheel. In that case I thought counseling might be appropriate. But not this. Did the kids even know the body was there at the time?

    It definitely seems like an overreaction on the school’s part until I remember how many parents act these days and I imagine the school was trying to preempt an even bigger overreaction on the parents’ part.

  6. lightbright (lgb) May 26, 2017 at 12:38 pm #

    @Dienne, I agree with you that the kids have a right to feel and process whatever they’re feeling. Especially to the occasional kid who’s been through the suicide of a loved one, this sight may have triggered some trauma.

    I do take issue with the letter, which takes on the tone of parenting the parents. A simpler version would have sufficed: “This is what happened. If your child needs support in processing this event, please contact our school counselor, John/Jane Doe, at 555-5555.”

  7. Junion May 26, 2017 at 12:57 pm #

    I know this was human but…

    How does the school feel about kids seeing numerous dead animals on roadsides or highways?
    What if they are in a vehicle that hit an animal?
    Is this why we don’t want them walking in woods, so they hopefully don’t see a dead critter?

    Would Bambi, The Lion King, Transformers The Movie (the old animated one), and the list goes on..

    All be considered abusive to let kids see, if merely driving by a body that is a good distance away from the children will cause such ‘trauma’?

    Actually I’ve heard (and seen through cousins) that many young children nowadays LOVE Five Nights at Freddies, isn’t that abusive as that is sure to cause some “trauma”? I know I sure don’t play it….

    Now yes some kids may have issues, but blowing it up like this doesn’t help kids..it instead encourages them to have issues.

  8. Meagan Paullin May 26, 2017 at 12:58 pm #

    I think it was appropriate for the school to send info to the parents – like, hey, this happened, here are the details of the situation, this is what the kids may have seen and heard. We know this could potentially be triggering or upsetting to some kids. If your child is upset over this, please contact school counselor at xyz number, or visit xyz website for more tips for helping teens.

    I think that they were trying to do the right thing, but the list of stuff they provided is kind of over dramatic and weirdly worded.

    But I know that of the middle school kids I know, most would find this to be a creepy weird thing, but wouldn’t be upset or have a lasting impact, but some would be really freaked out. My grandpa committed suicide while I was in middle school, and it was so confusing to me. So, kids not only knowing that there was a dead body there, but hearing that it was suicide, may have questions. So, the school is right I think to let parents know the facts, for them to answer kids questions if they have them. Giving resource links on how to discuss suicide with teens is appropriate, for the parents who don’t know what to say.

    Kids are both more emotional and more resilient than we realize sometimes. You never quite know what will get their thoughts and feelings tangled up.

    So, I think notifying of the facts, that’s good. Parents might hear “we saw a dead body!!” And wonder wtf? So facts are good. But the school should have just offered resources for parents, for the few who need it, where the advice would be sensible, versus adding their extremely clumsy attempt at help.

  9. Workshop May 26, 2017 at 1:13 pm #

    Seeing a dead body is not traumatic. Seeing the dead body of someone you don’t know, who you don’t even know died, is not traumatic.

    Seeing a living body turned into a dead body can be traumatic.

    It takes a special type to not understand the difference.

  10. Gina May 26, 2017 at 1:14 pm #

    I believe children of any age should be told the truth about death, allowed to attend the bedside of a dying person, allowed to attend the funeral or wake. I don’t believe in shielding them from death in any way.

    However, I do think that suddenly seeing the dead body of a stranger on the side of the road can be a bit off-putting. I don’t think that counseling should be mandatory but I really don’t see the problem with offering it for any student who has questions or feelings to share.

  11. Warren May 26, 2017 at 1:16 pm #

    I’m going to need counseling to put up with Dienne ‘ s drivel.

    Big difference between an interrogation and driving by a scene.

  12. James Pollock May 26, 2017 at 1:19 pm #

    When my daughter was in middle school, one of her classmates was killed in a plane crash just after the school year had ended. They sent home a letter, offered counselors at the school, and held a memorial at the school for any student who chose to attend.

    That’s a separate issue from what we see here, of course.
    But… suicides tend to cluster. Knowing that one person has successfully ended their lives causes others to consider doing so, as well.

  13. Vicki Bradley May 26, 2017 at 1:36 pm #

    Right on, Warren – couldn’t agree with you more!

  14. SKL May 26, 2017 at 1:55 pm #

    I agree with those who say it’s appropriate to inform parents “xyz happened and that counseling is available for any who may need it.” The letter does go overboard. I wouldn’t be surprised if it was a form letter with a few details changed to fit the “traumatic situation” of the day.

    If there were 50 kids on that bus who became aware of the dead body, there were 50 different reactions, from “wierd” to worries and nightmares. At least the letter acknowledged that every kid will need a different reaction by the parent, though for most, the reaction should be to just acknowledge and move on.

    And, I too noticed the stark contrast between the tone of this post and the previous one. Either kids [in general] are resilient or they aren’t. Either they need to be handle with utmost care or they don’t.

  15. Kirsten May 26, 2017 at 2:10 pm #

    I was 12 when I saw my first dead body – a DOG on the side of the road. I cried for two weeks, and I still remember the image. I was utterly devastated. Please don’t take for granted that everyone can “handle” something like this, especially not at their age. I am a huge fan of Free Range Kids, but I am also a fan of making sure my kids have someone to talk to when they need it. Offering counseling hurts no one. NOT offering counseling might.

  16. theresa May 26, 2017 at 2:11 pm #

    Some of the kids might not even noticed. I know when I was kid i had my nose in a book 90 percent of the time .so driving by a dead body probably wouldn’t have even stop reading long to see. But that me a bookworm

  17. Workshop May 26, 2017 at 2:19 pm #

    SKL, why do you think it’s all or nothing? Kids are resilient or they’re not – that’s bullsqueeze.

    Yes, they can pass by 50 feet of a dead body and not think a thing of it (because there’s nothing inherently traumatic about a dead body), while an hour later be told “this thing you did means your life is over; you’ll go to jail, you’ll be put on the sex offender registry for life, you will be unable to use a computer, you will likely have to live under a bridge as that’s the only place that’s not within 1000 feet of children” and suffer suicidal thoughts (or worse).

    What are you smoking?

    There’s a world of difference between the two situations. It’s a shame you’re too wrapped up in your own movie to understand that.

  18. SKL May 26, 2017 at 2:34 pm #

    Workshop, yeah, and the opposite is also entirely possible (that seeing a body of a suicide victim might be more traumatic for an individual kid than being told that what he did was a crime that could get him on the SOR but probably won’t this time.

    You were the first to call the former “snowflakes.” “Which your kids will not be” – what is this future tense? You don’t have kids [or they are younger] but you know all about parenting those age groups?

    My comment was that Lenore changed tone a lot – and others saw it too. You as always are entitled to your own opinion, as I am entitled to mine.

  19. John B. May 26, 2017 at 2:36 pm #

    @M

    Actually I think the students saw the corpse BEFORE authorities could place a shroud over it which is the reason for all this hysteria. Regardless, this is a HUGE over reaction in my opinion. I believe the school is actually doing more harm to the psych of these middle schoolers by suggesting they’ll have “trouble sleeping or nightmares” and have “irrational fears, fears of recurrence, or fears about personal safety” etc., etc. This is absolutely ridiculous! Through the power of suggestion, I believe the school runs the risk of sensitizing these kids. So is it a wonder why we have a generation of snowflakes at the collegiate level?

    I understand if it were a dead classmate of theirs they tripped over in the woods. That would be traumatizing to most adults! But this was somebody they didn’t know whose body they saw what looks like, from the picture, a half of football field away. Some of them probably didn’t even realize the person was dead. Compare this to kids in Iraq during the early part of this century or Vietnamese children back in 1968. These kids saw dead and maimed bodies along side the road every day and I’m willing to venture that most of them turned out just fine. Unpleasant memories? Of course. Something that greatly debilitated their lives? Nonsense, and this situation is very mild compared to what war torn children go through.

    Now perhaps the school’s Principal was just trying to cover her butt. Who knows? BUT her letter is overkill in my opinion, no pun intended.

  20. SKL May 26, 2017 at 2:39 pm #

    “My children will be able to cope with difficult stuff” is a brilliant comment. You really don’t know exactly how your kids will cope as hormones change the way their brain works. You really don’t even know how *you* will cope at those times.

    I have a kid who freaks out at the thought of spending the night away from me. This started last summer after a bad experience at summer camp. I would not have thought I’d be raising a kid with such an issue, but ya know, you get the kids you get. You deal with it. That’s what being a parent means.

  21. Beth May 26, 2017 at 2:42 pm #

    Dienne, are you related to James Pollock? Because it sure seems like you’re here to troll.

  22. Crystal May 26, 2017 at 3:00 pm #

    Once again, Warren is spot-on (dead-on)? I am sad for the person who felt the need to end their life, but I do not feel sorry for the kids who probably saw nothing.

  23. Ifsogirl May 26, 2017 at 3:13 pm #

    When I was in grade 11 so 1993, four girls in the graduating class were in a horrific fatal car accident while camping over the long weekend. I happened to be in the same area at the same time and was in fact stuck in traffic behind the accident.

    Grief counseling was offered to all 2,400 grade 11 and 12 students that comprised the school. Upon finding out that I had seen the aftermath (mostly consisting of emergency crew and tarps) friends and teachers were surprised I didn’t go. I never knew the girls, I saw the cleanup of an accident and I didn’t know students at my school were involved until halfway through the school day.

  24. Larissa Schwartz May 26, 2017 at 3:24 pm #

    I grew up in a small town in Queens NY which was right across the bay from Rikers Island (prison).Around the corner was a large park that we used to play in (without parental supervision) which faced the bay. Every once in a while drowned escapee from the prison used to float up into the park. My younger brother who was probably 7-9 years old used to run into the house yelling, “Ma, I’m going down the park, there’s a body!” For the neighborhood kids, it was their creepy excitement for the day. No one was traumatized or needed counseling, or safe activities. When they excitement was over, they just went back to playing wiffle ball. Ah the old days!

  25. Steve May 26, 2017 at 3:59 pm #

    “Provide positive, non-violent activities to help them cope.” I just love this line. It makes me laugh every time I read it.

  26. Evan May 26, 2017 at 4:07 pm #

    Kids got to see a body without even having to go for a long walk down a railroad track, camp in the woods, almost get knocked off a bridge by a train, get bitten by leeches, or get into a fight with the local juvenile delinquents. Life was a lot tougher in the fifties.

  27. John B. May 26, 2017 at 4:18 pm #

    @SKL:

    It is MY belief that the opposite is highly unlikely. Actually middle school aged kids could be more desensitized to a site like this than most adults would be. Primarily because their minds are not mature enough to process the seriousness of the situation. When I was in middle school two centuries ago, the most likely reaction you’d get from kids would be “WOW! A DEAD BODY!” Particularly from boys.

    As a 12-year-old kid, I remember seeing a neighbor shoot a cornered woodchuck in their garage. Blood then rolled out on the garage floor and I thought, how cool! It didn’t phase me at all. But as an adult, a scene like that would upset me probably because I’m mature enough to see the senselessness of the act. Why not call animal control so they can trap the animal and release it in the boonies instead of needlessly and painfully kill it?

    But if the Principal sees the need to cover her butt by sending a letter home to parents, fine, I have no problem with that. But all that ridiculous drivel about the kids being traumatized and having nightmares, yada, yada, yada, is unnecessary and presumptuous in my opinion. She merely needs to alert parents of the situation that the kids on the school bus saw a deceased person from a distance away whom they later learned took his own life. She then needs to inform the parents that she hadn’t noticed the kids reacting negatively to the scene one way or the other but that they should ask their kids about it in order to gage their reaction.

    Anything beyond that is an over reaction that could make things worse in the long run.

  28. John B. May 26, 2017 at 4:30 pm #

    “My younger brother who was probably 7-9 years old used to run into the house yelling, ‘Ma, I’m going down the park, there’s a body!’ For the neighborhood kids, it was their creepy excitement for the day. No one was traumatized or needed counseling, or safe activities. When they excitement was over, they just went back to playing wiffle ball.”

    @Larissa:

    My point exactly!!!! Unfortunately today, school officials would try their hardest to convince your brother that he needs to be traumatized!

  29. James May 26, 2017 at 5:02 pm #

    “When I was in middle school two centuries ago, the most likely reaction you’d get from kids would be “WOW! A DEAD BODY!” Particularly from boys.”

    I lived by the church we went to when I was in middle school, and thus served as an alter boy at many emergency services–funerals, shotgun weddings, that sort of thing (small town; what can you do?). My reaction would have been “Guess I know what I’m doing on Friday.” Crass, sure, but what do you expect from a middle school boy? Particularly one who had responsibilities involving death (not huge ones, but still). I learned very early on that grief is for the living.

    I personally think (but only apply this to myself–we all deal with death in our own ways) that morning the death of someone I don’t know is crass and rude. I didn’t care that the person lived, not in the sense that it made any substantive impact on my life; why would I suddenly start caring now that he’s no longer alive? His life didn’t magically become significant to mine by his death, and pretending it did is an insult to those to whom he WAS important. I’m not sure when I decided this, but it was probably around my first funeral as an alter boy.

    “Could someone please provide me a list of what students should be tough enough to suck up and handle vs. what could possibly cause suicide, and at what ages? Thanks.”

    Well, Dienne, the short answer is “It depends”. First, it depends on what the situation is. Students drove by a body? Not likely something that can cause suicide by itself–they probably didn’t notice, care, or understand what it meant (they could have thought he was sleeping or waiting or something). A person being told “You killed someone” (and that’s what “Your actions probably caused this suicide” actually means)? Strong possibility this person’s going to be messed up emotionally for a while. Even if you think killing someone is the right thing to do there’s a psychological cost–ask any cop. Accidental deaths are worse, because you don’t have that defense of believing you’re right.

    As for the rest? Depends on the event, the child, the context, and….well, everything. One person may break in a situation, while another may thrive. And a person may do something 500 times, but the 501st it may be too much. I know this is probably a novel concept, but the only real way to know the answer to your question is to know the person involved and the situation. There are no hard-and-fast rules.

  30. James Pollock May 26, 2017 at 5:03 pm #

    “Dienne, are you related to James Pollock? Because it sure seems like you’re here to troll.”

    … says the person who only ever seems to post when they feel like trolling me.

  31. SarahMom May 26, 2017 at 5:23 pm #

    As a middle school teacher myself, I’m not at all surprised by this letter, and not really annoyed by the tone, either. This age group is notorious for blowing things out of proportion, and a letter reminding the parents to keep an even keel and remember to pay attention to their kids in light of this incident seems very normal to me. The tone is more a function of our litigious society – they have to cover every base, because there are many people who would like to find an excuse to sue anyone for their kid’s emotional challenges. That’s the unfortunate part in my mind.

    I worry more about the parents who themselves add to the drama – and there are many who would. A fair percentage of the parents in my school are merely coping with the “normal” parts of parenting. I can imagine many of them having very insensitive reactions to this news, and create a more negative response in their child than might have been there initially. I know many who would do well to read this letter, though they’re the ones who probably wouldn’t bother. As a parent who would read it myself, I roll my eyes a bit at the thought of meeting my kid at the bus stop because of this, but appreciate knowing what my kid might have witnessed, and what was said at school to the kids.

    And I just have to say I’m surprised at the tone that’s starting to appear in the responses here, Lenore. I feel like there’s a lot of misreading of each other’s words, and people reacting with a sort of venom that used to be pleasantly absent from your page. I guess we’re all susceptible to over-reactions once in a while, huh?

  32. Artyom May 26, 2017 at 6:47 pm #

    “When I first glanced at the headline my brain turned this into a school bus being driven by a dead body for 50 feet! Like maybe the driver died and the bus continued another 50 feet with only a dead body at the wheel. In that case I thought counseling might be appropriate. But not this. Did the kids even know the body was there at the time? ”

    Exactly what was my reaction.

    Letting the parents know what happened is not wrong, but this letter is a bit overdone. Also, kids always have a day when they can’t sleep well or don’t eat as much as usual. Going to counseling because of every nightmare occuring will probably really be causing a problem by constantly suggesting to the kid that something is wrong with him.

    We should be glad they did not force anyone into counseling. [I hope I’m not giving anybody ideas here] We had the same when a pupil was hit by car directly infront of the school, when a teacher died in a car crash. As far as I know, nobody went for counseling.

    Do I think kids should be able to handle this? Of course! But for some reason the “fragile snowflake” train becomes more and more common. Quite often I really wonder how and why kids play along with that.

  33. Chris G. May 26, 2017 at 7:50 pm #

    What about all the kids in Syria or in African countries who see bodies on the streets as a result of war or disease? Are they being offered counseling? Activities to do? What sorts of coping skills are they provided? Just wondering.

  34. Puzzled May 26, 2017 at 8:07 pm #

    Wasn’t there a movie about kids seeing a body?

    Also, in response to Chris G., we’re a bunch of hypocrites. Just take a look at the licensing laws for childcare, in comparison to the utter lack of requirements to go on a “benevolent tourism” trip and walk around an orphanage taking selfies in another country.

    Finally, I think sending a letter makes sense, but the part about “positive, non-violent activities” gets me.

  35. lollipoplover May 26, 2017 at 9:25 pm #

    @Puzzled- Stand By Me was the movie (and a great one).

    If the middle school bus is anything like my teen’s, all of these kids probably had their heads in their phones, totally oblivious.

    As for the letter and counseling, I don’t actually see anything wrong with it. Give these kids more people to talk to, especially about suicide. Among middle school kids, suicide has surpassed car accidents as the leading cause of death. You never know what’s going on in their minds and giving them open chances to talk isn’t necessarily a bad thing.

  36. pentamom May 26, 2017 at 9:54 pm #

    Is there any evidence any of these kids even SAW the body, let alone knew it was a dead body and not some guy lying on the ground?

  37. hineata May 26, 2017 at 11:34 pm #

    I have to disagree with you on this one, Lenore. Suicide is a serious problem and something that middle schoolers should be encouraged to talk about. It isn’t being a ‘snowflake’ if you feel affected by a death in your vicinity, whether you knew that person or not.

    I might be a snowflake, but about a year ago four suicides happened around the same time of teenagers and early twenties individuals, one connected to the girls’ school, one connected to a school I worked at, two I had no connection with except via friends of friends, and yet I felt down and helpless for a month or two. I am a fifty plus year old, and it upsets me greatly when young people can’t see how temporary problems are, and how good life will be again. Imagine being a teen then. Offering counseling after a suicide in the area is a great idea.

  38. hineata May 26, 2017 at 11:56 pm #

    @Workshop – I agree with SKL on this. How in the world do you know what your kids will be able to cope with?

    Death is part of life, but suicide should not be, and as for the crazy comment about children in Vietnam seeing death around them and turning out just fine, well, wow! Vietnam and Cambodia are into at least their second generation of families growing up with PTSD for leftovers from war and revolution. No, those kids did not turn out ‘just fine’. Countries are still paying for that trauma.

  39. bmj2k May 27, 2017 at 12:23 am #

    So the kids saw, at worse, a tarp-covered bump. Tell the kids it was a log and move on.

    OK, I’m kidding. I do think that some kids really might have had a reaction to it. But the letter is over the top.
    A- Tell the parents that their child may have seen a crime scene with a body covered by a tarp
    B- give them the number of a hotline or a link for information if their kids are upset
    C- that’s it.

  40. JTW May 27, 2017 at 1:03 am #

    Most of those children will have had no problems “coping” until they had those problems drummed into their heads by that “counselor”.

  41. CrazyCatLady May 27, 2017 at 1:06 am #

    Memorial Day, when my brother was about 11th grade, he and his best friend and his two brothers (twins) went down to the river to swim because it was in the 90s. The best friend swam out into the cold water….and couldn’t get back. He drowned in front of my brother and his younger twin brothers. All tried to swim out and find him but being a very fit teen with little body fat…he sunk fast.

    THAT was traumatic. It would be for anybody.

    Last year, diffferent local, a school bus cut off a guy on a motorcycle and ran him over and killed him. There was at least one special needs child on the bus.

    THAT was traumatic. It would be for anybody.

    MY son, age 11, was at a bus stop for the transit bus so he could go to the library after school until I could pick him up. A large number of ambulances, fire trucks and police cars came past in the 5 minutes before his bus came. The bus came, and was able to drive past the bus, the busted up bike and paramedics trying in vain to work on the motorcycle rider. He saw feet.

    It COULD have been traumatic. For him…it wasn’t.

    I drove past about 90 minutes later with my daughter. My daughter who was depressed and had a misdiagnosis so that it was not treating the actual condition and thus making her more depressed. The body was covered with a tarp, but the feet were out. The bike looked like one that our neighbor rode. I was worried, but she was doing counseling and it never came up.

    It could have been traumatic. It was not our neighbor, though our neighbor did know the man and used to ride with him sometimes. It was pretty traumatic for him. He had also just gotten divorced, I was worried for him.

    I understand erring on the side of caution. Unfortunately, my daughter’s school lost a student this year. I did find out on Facebook first, and asked. A notice came home with kids and was emailed later. They did not say that the young man had committed suicide, just left an open ended had died. I had been worried that it might have been a friend of my daughter’s as she has some friends with issues…but it was not. And due to her issues finally being properly diagnosed, she was in a better place than she had been the year before.

    The fact that this was along the bus route…means that maybe some of the kids knew the person? Perhaps a brother or father of a kid? Maybe someone they had cut the grass for the previous year…or more likely gone Trick or Treating with parents? That could get a little creepy for middle school kids who tend to dwell in a high drama mode.

  42. test May 27, 2017 at 4:31 am #

    @Chris G. “What about all the kids in Syria or in African countries who see bodies on the streets as a result of war or disease?”

    Their lives sux in more then one way. And they are affected, more likely to become violent themselves (for example). More likely to join gang or extremists.

    “Are they being offered counseling? Activities to do? What sorts of coping skills are they provided? ”

    Lucky few, yes. Others parents do what they can provided they are available. Many of those kids ends up bally.

  43. Paul May 27, 2017 at 5:22 am #

    So do they just keep legitimate grief counselors hanging around for just such an occurrence waiting to spring into action? Or jus some overeager amateur administrator who will do more harm than good?

  44. JTW May 27, 2017 at 6:34 am #

    “So do they just keep legitimate grief counselors hanging around for just such an occurrence waiting to spring into action? Or jus some overeager amateur administrator who will do more harm than good?”

    Which do you think?…

    Most likely it’ll be a teacher or other staff member who’s gone through a few hours of “training”.

  45. test May 27, 2017 at 7:46 am #

    @JTW that sounds enough to me. More then few hours of training being seen as necessity seems legit overreaction to me. We should not jump from “no kid should want to talk about it” right to “you need grief counselors phd to deal with that kid”.

    The letter to me sounds like something that was prepared in advance with “fill in the blanks” for what actually happened. As a parent, I would interpret it that way. I don’t find “fill in the blanks” prepared lettters personally insulting. The letter does not even suggest kids are expected to have problems, it just states some might.

    We complain that college students are oversensitive, but then we turn around and interpret boilerplate “provide positive, non-violent activities to help them cope” as personal insult or suggestion that we would teach kids something evil. It is a bit of … double standard.

  46. JTW May 27, 2017 at 10:23 am #

    @test should be enough, but we all know what such types of training do: they just provide blanket “knowledge” which when applied to individual people for 99% of them turns out to be worse than useless.

    I’ve met people like that, they’d not believe the children who say they aren’t “disturbed” by it (even though they saw nothing…) and hammer on them until the kids break down in tears, talk them into psychosis.

  47. test May 27, 2017 at 11:12 am #

    @JTW Well then, amateur administrator should be good to go. You cant talk someone into psychosis that easily anyway. You can scare them and all kind of things, but if the kid was alright in the beginning it is unlikely the kid would be completely messed up after. At worst, they might tell some stupid things to finish the dialog.

    My assumption would be that most kids are perfectly fine if they even noticed it, few drama queens/kings in the whole school appear, one might be curious about what counseling is about and one or two kids might have been inspired to deeper thoughts they might wish to share with grown up. Average teacher administrator should be definitely good enough for drama queens/kings – and yes those do need attention and grown ups to teach them to tone drama down. The deeper thinking kid will have to evaluate whether that particular adult is trustworthy to talk with, but again sensitive teacher or administrator should be fine.

    For all we know one kid got counseling and the school felt the need to call his mom (guess makes sense, if my kid got counseling in school I would expect school to inform me) and that is all. Nothing to suggest the kid was in some huge distress nor that it was put into distress by administrator. All in all, it all sounds like the sort of situation administrator and teachers are expected to deal with and slow local news day scrambling to put an article together.

  48. Cam1st May 27, 2017 at 1:51 pm #

    I do agree with a number here who are stating that the school is in a bit of a bind.

    I’m assuming a couple things: that most of the kids on the bus did see, as well as one can from such a distance, the body. And that they knew it was a corpse. And that they reacted to this sight (oohs and ahs, interest, revulsion, etc.) in a way such that the driver and any other adults on the bus knew that the sight of the body was having an impact on the kids.

    So, what is the school to do?

    Nothing? That seems a bit odd. I can just hear the criticism if a number of kids came home that day and reported the body to their parents but with no info coming from the school.

    So the school, in this day of litigation and hyper-vigilance, responds by sending a letter.

    What is the letter to say? “Dear Parents, today your child might have seen a dead body by the road. Just wanted to let you know. Please call if you have questions or concerns.”

    That seems terse.

    So the school responds, as schools do, with the ubiquitous offer of counseling for “those who need it”, and a laundry list of things parents should and should not do to ease their kid’s anxiety, should he or she be anxious over this.

    Honestly, I can’t blame them. I’d probably do the same were I a school principal (which I am not).

    What I find more striking, in this story, and the responses to it here, and in other similar stories (in my area not long ago a man killed himself in a field adjacent to a school playground) is the paucity of response to the fact that this was a suicide.

    I find both the fact of a suicide, and the relative lack of discussion of suicide in our country, deeply troubling. At least as troubling as homicide. And yet there is little discussion of suicide, and here, in this instance as in the instance in my area, all focus is on the kids, and how this effected or did not effect them.

    Who addresses the fact that a human being felt such misery over his or her own existence that they took their own life?

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  51. baby-paramedic May 28, 2017 at 4:37 am #

    If the children say, saw a body that was hanging, it is appropriate to address that with them. Not as a “you saw a dead body oh god”, but more of a “hey, don’t try to copy that”. Some children aren’t real bright and like to try and copy what they have seen.

  52. Alanna Mozzer May 28, 2017 at 1:34 pm #

    In 3rd grade I had a teacher who died, and we did not get grief counseling. We all survived. She was an older woman who had only been our teacher for about a month (Not sure if she was hired as a regular teacher or as a long term sub.). She went home on Friday and never came back on Monday. We were told she had died over the weekend. I remember feeling sad. In fact I still feel a bit sad when I think of her, but we all got through it somehow. To my knowledge no one was offered grief counseling. That just wasn’t what was done in 1960.

    For months after that we had a series of substitute teachers, and in some ways that was more difficult to deal with than her death.

  53. Melissa Lowry May 28, 2017 at 2:08 pm #

    My 12 year old daughter is an altar server at our church (Catholic) and trained to serve funerals. She actually enjoys it because she says she is helping lift the burden of other people’s grief in some small way. She and her fellow servers sometimes receive payment for their service. This year they decided to donate their earnings, over $1000, back to the church. Maybe she could be a grief counselor…..

  54. Papilio May 28, 2017 at 6:01 pm #

    Baby-paramedic is the first to mention the possibility of the person hanging from a tree – that was the first thing I wondered when I read about a suicide in a park. I’d think there’s quite a difference between seeing a person that had clearly 1) died because of 2) suicide and seeing someone lying in the grass who could just as well be sleeping (drunk?).
    I also think there’s a big difference between seeing this from afar (assuming they didn’t know the person) and getting threatened with something that hugely affects the rest of their own life.

    “Parents were about to suggest some evil, violent activities to help them cope.”

    Well, I could see a watergun fight to blow off steam…

  55. John B. May 29, 2017 at 1:24 am #

    @hineata:

    Suicide is not the issue here with those kids. The kids saw a dead body from a distance and had absolutely no idea how the person died. It wasn’t until later that school officials found out that the person took his own life. So it’s not like those kids saw a dead body and screamed out “Oh my God, that person killed himself!” Because they had no idea how the person died! And how can you honestly surmise that Vietnamese adults between the ages of 50 and 60 are suffering from PTSD because of what they saw as kids? You don’t know that and it’s presumptuous to assume so. I’m sure there are a few exceptions but overall I’m sure that the far majority of the Vietnamese people who were children back then are doing just fine and have moved on with their life. The truth is that kids are much more resilient than we give them credit for and sometimes more so than adults are!

  56. hineata May 29, 2017 at 3:24 am #

    @John B – you are being presumptous to assume they do not. I spent a bit of time in Cambodia last year and in that country even the PM is known to suffer bouts of PTSD. My husband”s aunt certainly suffers a mild form of it even after decades in NZ. Your assumptions here are just a tad off the wall, frankly.

  57. James Pollock May 29, 2017 at 8:35 am #

    “The kids saw a dead body from a distance and had absolutely no idea how the person died.”

    You must have an exceptionally dim view of middle-school kids’ intelligence if you think they wouldn’t see a dead person hanging from a tree and manage to get to “suicide”. There aren’t a lot of accidental ways to get hung from a tree.

  58. test May 29, 2017 at 9:10 am #

    @John B. I love how people here love to throw around major atrocities as an argument without bothering to have serious look at aftermath of those atrocities. That downplays what those events were quite a lot. Wars and genocides have consequences long after they end – including on children and youth. One problem is trauma, another problem is them getting too used to all that violence and death. In Cambodia specifically, some children did not even get to grew up – they simply stopped eating and starved themselves to death. Some were fine and most were somewhere in between. No, majority of those people does not end paralyzed till the end of their lives. That does not mean they just move on with their lives as if it would all be a movie. It is not just ptsd, it is depression rates, various neuroses, anxiety, violence rates, major issues with trust and so on and so forth.

    None of it is the same as seeing a body once, obviously. There is no reason to pick majors events like this as argument since they are so out of proportion and do not have direct relevance.

    It is frankly odd insistence on Polyanna-like worldview in which being taught to hate and then seeing your trusted neighborhood piling up bodies have no effect on children. To put it in perspective, on this forum, we worry that children will grow up affected if they have too much homework.

  59. Art May 29, 2017 at 11:37 am #

    As an FYI, those of you who have kids here and those who are reading, there’s a Netflix series called 13 Reasons. It’s about a teenager who commits suicide after systematic bullying.

    There’s mixed reactions on this series, and the final suicide scene is quite graphic.

    It’s highly recommended that if your teen or child is watching this series, it’s imperative that you talk to your child. There is a chance that suicide could be seen as glamorized.

  60. Dingbat May 30, 2017 at 1:32 am #

    @M

    My sister in law would not allow my nephews to attend their grandfathers funeral because she thought they were not equipped to handle death. They were 9 and 12.

    She stayed at home with them and had no issues with letting her husband, my brother, attend his fathers funeral without them.

    I was attending funerals as a toddler. As anyone who did this can tell you, it was not really a big deal when you did not know them and were not close to them. I spent more time in my childhood looking at the families response to death than being traumatized by a body. I would note the ones very upset, be puzzled by the ones who did not seem upset at all, etc.

    Death is a natural part of life. You learn about it from pets unless you have horrible parents who feed you a lie about your pet running away/going missing, which provides no closure and leaves the child terrified about the dog being out there alone, starving, cold… with no friends. This is what my oldest nephew was told about his Bassett Hound, by his mom’s parents, who put up lost/reward posters all over the county at his request and watched him cry, waiting by the phone, for months,… because it was better for him than learning about lithe cycle of life.

    Someone in here said they cried about a dead dog on the side of the road for weeks. That’s your hang up. It was mine too. I would cry over animals. I cried for a week when I bit the ear off a teddy bear cookie because I thought I hurt it. I put it in a cake dish and burst into tears every time I walked past it. I was not traumatized or in need of councling. I was in need of someone saying… PULL IT TOGETHER! I lost this excessive softness and sensitivity as I aged, as one should.

    Children can be set off by weird things but I think this urge to provide councling when upset by anything keeps this excessive and irrational behavior going. Kids look to parents on how to respond and parents have been telling them to wallow in a neurotic mess for years.

  61. Dingbat May 30, 2017 at 1:49 am #

    @Workshop

    Have you seen this tirade from Evergreen State College?

    https://youtu.be/yo-BGLoCDZU

    This is what helicopter parents and those pretending everything traumatizes their children have raised. They are undeniably among the most worthless, illiterate, hateful, spiteful, over reactionary, useless and ignorant people in the country.

    More videos on the same

    https://www.google.com/amp/legalinsurrection.com/2017/05/evergreen-state-leftist-professor-stunned-as-sjws-viciously-turn-on-him/amp/

  62. James Pollock May 30, 2017 at 2:06 am #

    If you knew anything about Evergreen besides what you were told by Breitbart, you might have a different opinion.

  63. Dingbat May 30, 2017 at 2:15 am #

    It’s worth noting, though the article says it, the whole thing started over students demanding white staff and students be forced leave the campus for a day. Traditionally black students and staff voluntarily left the campus for a day to illustrate their importance through absence. This had been the original idea of black students, and tradition carried on, but white staff and students were told they were going to leave, no questions asked or complaints, this year. That is quite a different situation, and one with legal repcussions.

    The biology professor in question objected, wrote a polite email, was surrounded, called a racist and forced to leave campus and hold his classes in other locations. The traumatized and offended students have been holding the campus hostage since, treating everyone like garbage while making lists of demands that will prevent the “more sensitive, deeply feeling and diversity minded” generations from being traumatized and offended further (my ass, but their stupid parents let them get away with it and everyone else has to deal with their child’s education being destroyed and rights being trampled, along with them being constantly threatened, due to these lil bastards).

    They even blocked roads, stopped cars and forced their way into them to search for the professor who hurt offended them by not doing as they say.

    Parents have to get a hold on this before others get a hold of their kids.

  64. Dingbat May 30, 2017 at 2:50 am #

    @James P

    I’m not getting my news from Brietbart. I started out seeing videos of the students surrounding the liberal/progressive biology professor and cussing him like a dog, being shared by liberal progressive people on twitter. I then saw videos of the students harassing police officers, and then the dean, who was obviously a nervous wreck.

    https://youtu.be/f3CRVLVGa5E

    The article I linked has 2 or 3 additional videos that need no additional explanation. There is no excuse for this behavior. None.

    The college can take responsibility for a lot of it though. They expressed their outrage with other universities making commitments to free speech/students right and disavowing safe spaces and trigger warnings.

  65. Dingbat May 30, 2017 at 3:23 am #

    And yes James, this looks like such a terrible college where the students are oppressed by evil, heartless, wanna be but miserably failing Kurt Cobain, Nazi’s every day. I don’t know how they can stand it.

    https://youtu.be/jIXb9bw8v74

    Chances are, this group which initially started out as a Christian students potluck club 13 years ago, was intentionally destroyed from the inside out by the college (which everyone says is where the slow snowflakes fall) due to forced “diversity of thought”. That usually translates to conformity to one illiberal view. This has become such a problem that courts are ruling against it and legislation is being put in place to prevent administrators from mandating filling Christian or Jewish student groups with atheists in different states. I’m not religious but they should be able to have potlucjs and fellowship.

    This is a common at unvisersities all over the country and all demand trigger warnings, safe spaces, and 24-7 counseling because they were subjected to different opinions, and because that have grown up with this nonsense.

  66. James Pollock May 30, 2017 at 4:23 am #

    “I’m not getting my news from Brietbart. I started out seeing videos of the students surrounding the liberal/progressive biology professor and cussing him like a dog, being shared by liberal progressive people on twitter.”

    How odd it is that all these liberal progressives keep steering you to decidedly nonliberal media sources.

    As long as you insist on learning what’s happening on universities from rightist propaganda, you’re going to stay wildly out-of-touch.

    then again, how would *I* know anything about what happens at colleges? All I’ve done is collect more degrees than anyone really needs, work over a decade as a college instructor (and, oh, yeah, my daughter is graduating next month.)

  67. Dingbat May 30, 2017 at 11:03 am #

    They are the majority covering it. I would love it if more liberal sources picked it up, but they haven’t. Again, it doesn’t matter. The videos say it all. You can see the students getting triggered and feeling endangered and threatened by a politely worded email for yourself. You can see them storm a teacher in an angry mob, surround him, and scream at him for some time. You see the same thing at Yale and several other colleges.

    https://youtu.be/Tsgc0k594Js

    This professor in the sciences was surrounded by an angry mob of adult toddlers for THREE HOURS, because his wife wrote a polite email that triggered them and made them feel endangered. Lawyers documented the entire situation.

    This is not an isolated incident. It is what has prompted psychologists to ponder why students fall apart and have mental breakdowns over situations generations before them had no issue with. Back to the videos…

    You can read several articles,and see video about groups of students guarding the hallway as the angry mob had the biology professor at Evergreen surrounded. They were there to make sure no one could get thru or get to him.

    You can see the emergency meeting called for yourself. It’s the second to last video I posted and it is insane. You can hear the students yelling a female campus police officer that the male officer who responded with her committed a Hate crime because he pushed his way through the students in the hall, and the angry mob, to get to the professor. They had received reports he was being surrounded and threatened.

    You can hear the students who were in the mob saying the campus is a hot bed of white supremacy because they, the email angry mob, were actually the ones in danger.

    You can see videos of students surrounding a campus officer later.

    You can see them surrounding the dean. I posted an article with as many additional video sources as I could find.

  68. Dingbat May 30, 2017 at 11:21 am #

    This has been going on for 17 years, and progressively getting more violent, persecutory and insane with each passing year. A large part of it is due to how they were raised. It is due to hyper protectiveness, treating children as if they can not handle anything, and extended childhood. It is also due to the programs they have enrolled in which are hot beds of mass psychosis, victimology and conspiracy therories.

    We can’t let them avoid all the blame, though. These students are absolute garbage. They are truly bullies and extortionists. They use any situation they can find to have a meltdown and demand money from the college.

  69. Dingbat May 30, 2017 at 11:23 am #

    We’ve all seen toddlers grow temper tantrum and act complete destroyed to get there way… 18-22 is the new 3.

  70. Dingbat May 30, 2017 at 11:45 am #

    Throw.. completely.. their.

    Coffees not kicked in.

    The Yale video from a year ago does explain the problem with safe spaces and trigger warnings well, and yes, they typically demand access to counceling services after attaching people in mobs because they hurt by polite emails that disagree with their opinions.

    It starts slow, and the earlier this nonsense is introduced into their life, the worse it will be.

  71. John B. May 30, 2017 at 12:30 pm #

    “You must have an exceptionally dim view of middle-school kids’ intelligence if you think they wouldn’t see a dead person hanging from a tree and manage to get to ‘suicide'”.

    @James P:

    Where in the article did it say the person was found hanging from a tree or that he hung himself??

    @hineata:

    I think your assumptions are also “off the wall”. I was in Vietnam for a time back in 2003 and the country was just fine. I’m sure there ARE adults suffering from some sort of PTSD BUT it’s a huge stretch to say the whole country is suffering from PTSD. Also, as “test” says, you cannot compare children seeing dead and maimed bodies on a regular basis to children who see a dead person one time from about 50 yards away. I’m saying that even many of those kids turned out just fine so why should we presume that American children are gonna be traumatized and have nightmares from see a dead person from a half of football field away one time in their life??

  72. Dingbat May 30, 2017 at 12:34 pm #

    This is a good conversation on the topics addressed here, from the letters to school children offering counseling and providing absolutely ignorant instructions on how to talk to your child afterward… to those demanding safe spaces, trigger warnings and therapy over absolutely nothing in college.

    It’s a good conversation taking place in at the Battle of Ideas in the U.K. They are having the same problems, but at least Claire Fox is able to say… the Boomers put kids on a steady diet of danger/trauma/harm everywhere.

    https://youtu.be/yig1MFXdrrw

  73. James Pollock May 30, 2017 at 12:38 pm #

    “Where in the article did it say the person was found hanging from a tree or that he hung himself??”

    Right here.
    http://fox4kc.com/2017/05/24/witnesses-middle-school-students-look-in-disbelief-at-body-hanging-from-tree-police-confirm-suicide/

  74. sayford May 30, 2017 at 12:56 pm #

    is this from The Onion?

  75. Dingbat May 30, 2017 at 1:30 pm #

    The standard practice in any hanging is to immediately cut the body down. 911 will even instruct callers to do it immediately. If he was still hanging, uncovered, why does the picture show the covered body on the ground?

  76. Dingbat May 30, 2017 at 2:14 pm #

    @James P

    If you bother to watch the video you will see the 2 people they interviewed are all over the place. The first was the man who saw the body hanging while walking to his car, thought it was a doll and left to go to work. He wasn’t even there.

    The second says the police got there, automatically cut the body down and covered it, which is proven by photographs of the scene. They covered the body with more than one sheet. (That also shows callers refused to cut down the body which they would have been instructed to do.)

    He then told police a bus would be there in 20-30 min and asked them to wrap it up. They could not. They had to wait for the M.E. The M.E got there 10 min before the bus arrived and police stated that they kept the body covered to the best of their ability in the residential area, and especially from he bus full of kids. The picture shows it’s covered when the bus is there.

    Then, the same guy who said the police automatically cut down and covered the body, again confirmed by pictures, said it was left hanging and exposed for the kids to see, and so did the guy who wasn’t even there.

  77. Dingbat May 30, 2017 at 2:27 pm #

    It reminds me of the situation after Mike Browns death, to a much smaller degree. Multiple videos filmed by residents in the apartment complex, who ran out right after the shooting happened, clearly showed a paramedic covered his body with a sheet, with in minutes after the shooting happened.

    The next thing you know almost every major news outlet was running a story saying his body had been left uncovered in the street for 5 hours and his family members bringing out sheets and blankets to cover him were forced away from the scene.

    It unfortunately did take the fume scene unit 2 hour to get there because they were working a murder in another perish. When they finally got there they set up barricades around the body, which was a good thing. They were unfortunately also being threatened by angry residents shooting guns the whole time they tried to work, which delayed the already lengthy process for 3 more hours.

    A 5 hour crime scene at an apartment complex is rough for all but as far as the accounts in this residential area go… the M.E was there in 20-30 min, the body was properly covered and they were doing their best.

  78. Dingbat May 30, 2017 at 2:28 pm #

    *Crime scene unit

  79. James Pollock May 30, 2017 at 2:42 pm #

    “If you bother to watch the video you will see the 2 people they interviewed are all over the place.”

    If you bother to read the article, it’s explained for you.

    “The first was the man who saw the body hanging while walking to his car, thought it was a doll and left to go to work. He wasn’t even there. ”

    LOL. Where was he, then?

    “The picture shows it’s covered when the bus is there.”
    So… you’ve decided to flatly ignore the text of the story (“The coroner then arrived to the scene and removed the blanket, fully exposing the body.”). And, even assuming that this photo is of the same bus, (which it probably is not) relates to the kids who were there waiting for the bus to arrive so they could get on it… how, exactly? (Say… note that the article says that several parents and children were waiting for the bus to arrive, so they could get on the bus? Where are they, in this picture?)

  80. Dingbat May 30, 2017 at 2:51 pm #

    LOL :-/ He left to go to work before the suicide had even been called in and long before the bus got there. He very plainly says, as I already stated in the comment you quoted, that he saw the body on the way to his car as HE WAS LEAVING TO GO TO WORK. He thought it was a doll and drove on. Someone else called him later to tell him a guy had hung himself from a tree near his house.

    Again, he walked past a dead body hanging from a tree, thought it was a doll and went on to work.

    The other guy also said they pulled the sheet back and there he was…. hanging… No. The police said they were doing everything they could to keep the body covered

    Do you think they drove in a stunt bus? A body double? They called the school and asked if they could borrow one for effect? Or do you think a resident snapped that pic from their porch? Do you think parents could have been leery about letting their kids come out? Maybe a police officer or parent was talking to driver?

  81. Dingbat May 30, 2017 at 2:55 pm #

    I sure they would have had no problem talking the police and medical examiner into staying there for awhile so they could bring in another bus and get pictures to write an article complaining about their quick responses to a suicide scene.

  82. James Pollock May 30, 2017 at 3:25 pm #

    “He very plainly says, as I already stated in the comment you quoted, that he saw the body on the way to his car as HE WAS LEAVING TO GO TO WORK.”

    But how could he have seen the body if HE WASN’T EVEN THERE???

    “Again, he walked past a dead body hanging from a tree”

    But HE WASN’T EVEN THERE!!!

    “Do you think they drove in a stunt bus?”
    Do you think this town has only one school bus?

    “I sure they would have had no problem talking the police and medical examiner into staying there for awhile so they could bring in another bus”
    If they could, they should have run THAT photo, instead of this one. I mean, you can just look at this photo and see the “swarm” of police and the coroner and all their vehicles in the photo… (by which I mean that obviously YOU can, but the rest of us can’t.)

  83. Dingbat May 30, 2017 at 4:08 pm #

    I don’t know what to tell parents other than… it happens. You can’t prohibit your child from seeing any and every negative thing in life, including injury and death. I can recall seeing a boys foots being ran over by a car, 2 vehicles in front of me, as I was a child. He was selling something, window to window.

    I saw a man laying on the highway covered in blood that had been hit by a car.

    Saw a horrible motorcycle wreck that involved decapitation right after it happened.

    I lived in a house by a highway as a child, right after a curve infamous for horrible wrecks (because no one would slow down). I grew up watching cars flipping past my house.

    I saw a guy hit by a car as he stopped to help a disabled motorists in front of my house.

    I apparently called 0 (no 911 yet) to tell them about bad accident involving a dump truck, every day, for 3 days after it happened when I was 3. I vaguely remember it but my parents told me about it. I saw them dial 0 to report it so I called to ask questions.

    Parents didn’t reach out to the media about their children’s innocence being lost or these things haunting them forever.

  84. Dingbat May 30, 2017 at 4:20 pm #

    @James… WTF is wrong with you? No one is saying he was never at that location, did not see a body or that there was no body to be seen.

    I’ve clearly said he left his house, walked by the body which he said he thought was a doll/was not a real person, got in his car and left for work. This is obviously before officers were on scene. If you saw a crowd of officers standing around a body hanging from a tree you would not be thinking it was a doll. He had already left the apartment complex/ residential area before the police were called, before they got on scene and before the bus arrived. He was already at work. He said someone called him at work to tell him there had been a suicide.

    It is also stated that the bus had to wait several mini for the neighborhood kids to board. The late were not bringing their kids out.

  85. Dingbat May 30, 2017 at 4:25 pm #

    You can tell the man is high as a kite when he’s talking to the news. He talks about thinking the body was a doll as he walked past to get in his car and drive to work and then says he was “traumatized” after he got the phone from a neighbor call later.

    A few min later he’s talking like he watched the bus pull up.

  86. Dingbat May 30, 2017 at 4:43 pm #

    I’ve looked at the pictures of the fuzzy blob by the tree covering up the body in the video and can see nothing but the outline of the tree through it and someone bending down toward to the sheet on the ground closest to the tree in one pic. The photo with the [body site] block is down a couple feet lower than the blob. I see no feet dangling.

    Again, it’s typically standard practice to cut the person down and I know it is the very first words out of people’s mouths after they hear hanging. It’s protocol. If someone refuses to do it because they don’t want to get near the body or they think the person is beyond all hope… that is up to them. It’s always the first thing recommended so you can get them on a flat surface, check vitals and take life saving measures if there is any hope. (Its also just good to get the body down and not leave it there for all the family/friends to see depending on the situation). EMS & most LEO know to do this. The only time I can think of when they wouldn’t is if they possibly thought foul play was involved

  87. James Pollock May 30, 2017 at 4:44 pm #

    “WTF is wrong with you? No one is saying he was never at that location,”
    Scroll up a bit. Stop when you get to the comment at 2:14 pm where some lunatic says “He wasn’t even there.” and closes with “Then, the same guy who said the police automatically cut down and covered the body, again confirmed by pictures, said it was left hanging and exposed for the kids to see, and so did the guy who wasn’t even there”
    Take your argument to that nutjob.

    “The late were not bringing their kids out.”
    The late do not do much of anything but lie there, as a general rule.

  88. James Pollock May 30, 2017 at 4:51 pm #

    “Again, it’s typically standard practice to cut the person down”

    And, again, what has this to do with people who see it before this happens? Are you seriously contending that middle -school students should have gone and cut this poor fellow down?

  89. Dingbat May 30, 2017 at 5:17 pm #

    May I remind you… You said this was probably not the same bus, as if the traumatized residents snapping pictures of a body waited for another school bus to come in after all students had been taken to school and took photos. You questioned why there were not parents and kids waiting for the bus, as the article said they were, the picture.

    The article you shared said the bus was there for several minutes waiting for kids to get on it. They were still inside their houses. Parents were not bringing them out.

    They should have called the school and made them aware, as opposed to telling cops to wrap up an investigation before an M.E arrived. They were anticipating and worried about the bus 30 min before it arrived. Most schools can reach all bus drivers by radio or phone.

    Police had a car blocking a portion of the side street that would have put the bus closer to the location of the body

  90. Dingbat May 30, 2017 at 5:23 pm #

    No James. The bus came 30 min after police got on scene. The adult residents of the neighborhood that initially saw the person hanging from a tree would have phoned 911 and been told to cut down the body and check vitals first thing.

    You know, to see if the actual dead person in this story still had a pulse and if life saving measures could have been taken.

    That has nothing to do with middle schoolers that arrived on a bus 30 min later cutting down a body.

  91. Dingbat May 30, 2017 at 5:40 pm #

    From what I can gather the middle schoolers that live in the area are not necessarily the ones that may have seen the body. It was the 12 kids on the bus that pulled up, and waited, because no one was bringing their kids out.

    I feel bad for the parents of the person who committed suicide. The whole thing has been turned into his damned dead body stealing the innocence of and possibly traumatizing alive and well middle schoolers on a bus.

  92. Dingbat May 30, 2017 at 6:12 pm #

    Really, James. If you can’t understand that the man, THE WITNESS, in the video saying he left the scene to go to work before anyone was aware there was a suicide, before police arrived and before the bus pulled up… WHICH IS THE MAIN FOCUS OF THE STORY… I don’t know what to tell you. He was telling the story about the school bus pulling up as if he witnessed it himself, when he probably just saw a picture one of the “traumatized” residents was obsessively taking or was told about it.

    It pulled up right there… and those kids!!… I don’t know what it’s done to them!!… I’m 40 and I’m traumatized… He’s higher than a nine eyed spider.

    True, he saw what he thought was a not really real body but that was it. He didn’t even skip a beat after seeing something hanging from a tree. Assume it’s a doll that looks like “young man” and roll on. Got to play it up for the camera, though.

    I’m not sure why you would take so much issues with me saying, multiple times, initial 911 callers would have been instructed to cut down the body and check vitals/take life saving measures first thing or how you managed to turn that into me saying middle schoolers should have cut down the body. I wish someone would have, but that’s a job for an adult, if there is one worth a damn around. It’s not framed as a request. It’s framed in a way to hopefully cause action and check the status of the patient. It’s not a bad thing. It’s not an evil request.

    Again, if they refused because they did not want to near the body that was up to them.

  93. James Pollock May 30, 2017 at 6:58 pm #

    “May I remind you… You said this was probably not the same bus, as if the traumatized residents snapping pictures of a body waited for another school bus to come in after all students had been taken to school and took photos.”

    No, that’s you saying that.

    What I said is that the bus in the photo is probably not the one in the story.

    Given the two choices:
    1) the news folks arrived on the scene after it was pretty much all over with. They shot pictures of the scene, and tried to interview as many people as they could, but couldn’t find many people who were both available and willing to talk. The reconstructed events from what witness statements they could get.
    They did get a picture of the scene as a school bus passed by, but it is obviously not contemporaneous because A) the body had been removed by the coroner, who left the scene. B) With no reason to remain on scene, most of the police left the scene. C) Parents and children described as waiting at the bus stop are not present because the kids went to school and the parents went to work.
    2) The news people arrived just as everything they reported on was happening. The described “swarms” of police, but none are in the photo because… um, reasons. The coroner was on the scene, but is not visible in the photo because, um, reasons. The parents who were at the bus stop waiting with their kids are not visible in the photo because, um, reasons. And then the TV crew interviewed all those people, and decided to air the video of the guy who “wasn’t even there” instead of all the people who WERE there because, um, reasons.

    Which would you choose (Hint: #2 is your theory)

    But that’s not enough for you. You are trying to add a bunch of details all your own.

    “They were still inside their houses. Parents were not bringing them out. ”
    This detail, for example. Not in the news stories. In fact, contrary to what was reported.

    “Police had a car blocking a portion of the side street that would have put the bus closer to the location of the body”
    And this detail. You made it up. Why? The news stories specifically say that the bus was on its regular route.

    “The adult residents of the neighborhood that initially saw the person hanging from a tree would have phoned 911 and been told to cut down the body and check vitals first thing.”
    And this detail. There’s literally no mention of anyone calling 911 in either news story.

    “the middle schoolers that live in the area are not necessarily the ones that may have seen the body”
    And this detail, which again directly contradicts the news story.

    “the bus that pulled up, and waited, because no one was bringing their kids out.”
    And this one (still)

    “He’s higher than a nine eyed spider. ”
    And this one.

    “True, he saw what he thought was a not really real body but that was it.”
    I thought he wasn’t the FOCUS OF THE STORY but rather the kids who saw it? Do they not exist because the TV folks couldn’t interview them, because they’d already left for school?

    “I’m not sure why you would take so much issues with me saying, multiple times, initial 911 callers would have been instructed to cut down the body and check vitals/take life saving measures first thing”
    Here’s another invented detail. I have “take so much issues” with this approximately 0 times. And there’s still no way of knowing if there WERE any 911 callers. Nobody but you says there were any.

    Since you’ve gone out of your way to construct this elaborate bubble reality, in dontradiction of the people who where actually there, why don’t you just go ahead and imagine that that kid wasn’t really dead, and when the cops came and cut him down he just got up and walked away? Maybe he could be an evil feminist college student, too?

  94. Dingbat May 30, 2017 at 8:05 pm #

    This is from the story Lenore linked. It is from the 24th. Check the first paragraphs of the story or just look at the date on the email that is pictured. The email from the school
    about the incident went out on the 23rd. The news station was contacted on the 24th because parents wanted to know why there had not been a story on it. THE NEWS WAS NOT THERE AS IT WAS HAPPENING

    http://fox4kc.com/2017/05/24/raytown-middle-school-kids-see-dead-person-during-bus-ride-police-confirm-suicide/

    “Parents have contacted FOX 4, wondering why they have not seen the story on the news. One mother posted on social media that the school called her and ‘rambled’.

    “Finally he got it out and said your child seen a dead body today and he’s with the grievance counselor,” said one mother on Facebook. “……they made like it was in the street or something!!!”

    FOX 4’s Megan Brilley spoke to a man who says he warned police that the bus would be coming by soon after the coroner arrived and removed the sheet from the person. Look for that interview in our FOX 4 newscasts at 9 & 10 p.m., and then on our FOX 4 KC app and Facebook page

    AND THEN FROM THE ARTICLE YOU LINKED…

    “Middle school students on the bus and nearby parents watched in disbelief. The bus sat for several minutes as it waited for neighborhood kids to board”

    READ AGAIN…. MIDDLE SCHOOL STUDENTS ON THE BUS AND NEARBY PARENTS WATCHED IN DISBELIEF…. THE BUS SAT THERE FOR SEVERAL MIN WAITING FOR KIDS TO BOARD.

    “Witnesses and parents know police were just trying to do their jobs, but now they’re terrified this image will be with their children forever.”

    “All those kids on that bus lost their innocence.”

    ALL THOSE KIDS ON THAT ****BUS**** LOST THEIR INNOCENCE.

    ^^^ Not all the kids in the neighborhood. All the kids on the bus. There were 12 on it. This is specifically highlighted and mentioned in the article you linked. It takes you to the original story Lenore shared. They sat there for several min waiting for the kids in the neighborhood. Considering you see no kids in the pictures, it states the bus sat there waiting and only the kids on the bus have concern expressed about them, it’s safe to assume parents were keeping the neighborhood children in the house.

    AGAIN… THE NEWS DID NOT TAKE THE PICS

    See the video in the link you shared. Check out the apartment complex that is behind the first man that talks (ill be calling him Cooter Brown cause you’d have to be drunk/high) and the tree in question. See the 2nd story balcony behind him as the camera pans over to the right. It looks like it may be in a partially covered stairwell. The pictures came from that location. Either from area or a second story window close by… looking down.

    “Police Swarmed” is media hyperbole. This should be so merging you are familiar with after visiting this site. The officers are in the right corner of the image, by the tree.

    Most people call 911 to report incidents, James. It’s not a stretch of the imitation to imagine they picked up the phone, called 911 and said there’s a man hanging from a tree!!! Most don’t have police depts non emergency numbers memorized and most would think of this as an emergency. It’s the most likely scenario. The police found out some how. As I said in my first post on it… if the reporting persons didn’t feel comfortable or think there was hope/the person could be revived… the decisions is theirs.

    This was me pondering in print… Look at the pic posted in Lenore’s story. That’s more than likely an unmarked detectives car. It’s parked in the road and based on the direction the bus is headed would have hard for them to swing in with a car there. Taking a side street by an apartment building could be part of the route. Are routes a straight line in this day and age? Anyway… I was simply saying the bus would have a harder time getting by and getting a closer view. It was kept at a greater distance.

    I don’t even care what else you asked

  95. James Pollock May 30, 2017 at 9:38 pm #

    “it’s safe to assume…”
    ” It’s not a stretch of the imitation to imagine…”
    “That’s more than likely an…

    “That’s more than likely an unmarked detectives car.”

    ‘Cause you don’t like it when I call you on making stuff up.

  96. Dingbat May 31, 2017 at 2:54 am #

    What would you do if you saw a body hanging from a tree? Call the clerk of court or 911?

    I have every doubt in the world that you are an actual X’er because you’re too slow and stupid for anyone to claim or care

  97. James Pollock May 31, 2017 at 10:41 am #

    “I have every doubt in the world that you are an actual X’er because you’re too slow and stupid for anyone to claim or care”

    If this made any sense, I’m sure it was supposed to be offensive. But whatever an “actual X’er” is, I just can’t bring myself to care.

  98. John B. May 31, 2017 at 1:02 pm #

    The original article I read did NOT say the deceased person was seen hanging from a tree. Just that the students saw a dead body. Very poor journalism in leaving out pertinent facts in my opinion. Obviously the actual scenario gives it a whole new perspective.

    It’s certainly a scary thing for ANYBODY, even an adult, to see a dead person who hung himself. Although I’m a little confused as to how a body can be “covered” while it’s hanging vertically with a rope around its neck as the article stated. I also take issue with the article stating that the kids were “10 feet away”. If you look at the above picture, the street where the bus was was much further than “10 feet away” even if the actual street they were on was out of the picture (there’s much more than 10 feet of grass between the body location and the bottom edge of the pic).

    But I still believe it’s presumptuous to say “the children lost their innocence”, particularly 12- to 14-year-olds. My grandfather committed suicide in 1921 by hanging himself in the barn. My father, who was 10-years-old at the time, was the person who found his dad. Obviously shocked by the sight BUT my dad turned out just fine and did not lose his innocence and remember, they did not offer counseling to children back then.

    So with this being the case, was the letter sent home to parents appropriate? Perhaps, but my hunch is that ALL those kids, including the adult who saw that body, will be just fine even without counseling.