More Wild Investigation of Family that Let Son Wait in Car 20 Minutes: Boy is Stripped Naked, Photographed

You’ll recall that on Saturday, the Cheung family in Valley Stream, Long Island, let their 4-year-old son stay sleeping in the car while they went into a Home Depot to get some Christmas lights. They came out about 20 minutes later to find firefighters had smashed a window to extricate the boy, as if the car had been on fire. Then, despite the fact the kid was fine, they rushed him to the hospital in an ambulance (mom went with him) and threw the dad in jail.

Dad was released later that same day. He picked up his son and wife at the hospital, arrived home around 10 p.m., and a Child Protective Services worker arrived around midnight to investigate the parents and home.

I got this update from the dad, Mr. Cheung, yesterday (link is mine):

Just an update, acs came on Monday and inspected the house again and made us open some drawers and our closet. Inspected the children’s room and checked their drawers as well. She Interviewed my son alone. Made both children strip naked and a photo of my son’s behind was taken because he has Mongolian butt.   She also came again this morning and interviewed me. She will be getting the children’s medical records and go to my sons pre k class to watch him play. So I’m assuming the teachers will at the very least know there is a case open.  How embarrassing.
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My car window was replaced. My friend is a mechanic and helped me out but the bill was still $350. With how crazy things are. I think I will have to hire an attorney just in case.
The kids were stripped naked? After the boy was already examined at the hospital? And a caseworker has to watch him PLAY? What is going on???
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Could Valley Stream overreact any more massively?
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Is there some way it could waste any more time and money on this case? Could all those involved pretend any HARDER that there’s a real reason to continue probing the family? 
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Maybe next week they can ask for blood samples, or re-create the day of the “crime” and measure the angle of the sun. Maybe they can call the FBI for backup.
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At this point, I am alerting David DeLugas to the case. He’s founder of the National Association of Parents, a group dedicated to fighting government interference in unabusive homes. Joining his nonprofit costs $19/year — something I’ve done and you might want to consider. Aside from DeLugas, I only know of the Family Defense Center in Chicago that does the same kind of fighting, for families in Illinois.
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Even if you would not leave your child in a car for 20 minutes, please recall that this was completely normal until just recently — you probably waited as a kid — and that more kids die in parking lots than waiting in cars. Twenty minutes is not twenty days. And one moment of “imperfect” parenting does not a monster family make. – L.

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Next step in Valley Stream’s investigation of family that let kid nap in the car 20 minutes?

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60 Responses to More Wild Investigation of Family that Let Son Wait in Car 20 Minutes: Boy is Stripped Naked, Photographed

  1. Vicki Bradley December 8, 2016 at 8:37 am #

    This is so awful for the poor Cheung family! How the government can’t see that they’re completely traumatizing them, especially the boy, is beyond me. No wonder so many kids who really do need help are falling through the cracks when so much money/resources are being wasted on this witch hunt. I hope Mr. Cheung does get a lawyer and holds CPS’s feet to the fire, to hopefully stop them from doing this to another innocent family.

  2. WendyW December 8, 2016 at 9:21 am #

    He should do more than have a lawyer waiting “just in case”. He should sue the city/county for harassment and overreach, and/or whatever other charge fits.

  3. Misty December 8, 2016 at 9:23 am #

    But when you find out a family member you are living with is a pedophile and had plans to get our daughter kidnapped, then robbed us blind, the police say it is a civil matter!! His next plans were to call CPS. Now we are in hiding, he gets away with everything, but leaving a child in the car is criminal. I am sick of this!!

  4. Jess December 8, 2016 at 10:38 am #

    This is what happens when a bureaucratic institution can’t quantify what it really does. How do you quantify a parent better taking care of their kids, or support and help given? You can’t. You can only quantify how many meetings you had, how many interviews, how many families investigated. These become the benchmarks for the group, and since how traumatized you made a kid and their family can’t be whittled down to a number, it’s ignored in the interest of “doing something” that can be.

  5. theresa December 8, 2016 at 11:00 am #

    Like I said get a lawyer or risk being under their thumb for the rest your life.

  6. Rhonda Fisher December 8, 2016 at 11:24 am #

    This makes me want to cry. That poor family.

  7. Jessica December 8, 2016 at 11:41 am #

    Also, the population of Asian people in this country is high enough that EVERY individual who works with little kids should be aware of what the dad calls “Mongolian butt” (looks like a bruise but isn’t). That should immediately be known as a total non-issue; why would they take photos??

  8. Backroads December 8, 2016 at 11:58 am #

    Can you legally be forced to have your kid stripped naked? I’d sue.

  9. Paul Hess December 8, 2016 at 12:06 pm #

    They are likely causing significant and perhaps lasting harm to the upbringing of this child. Definitely should pursue some sort of restraining order. We need an agency to protect our children from this kind of harm. Maybe call it cps-ps

  10. Jb December 8, 2016 at 12:26 pm #

    Wow! Naked pictures of children?!? Isn’t that child ponography?!

  11. Hazel December 8, 2016 at 12:29 pm #

    Yes, this family needs an attorney. I will flag a possible problem here, please let the family know if you have their contact details, which you presumably do. Props to you for letting David DeLugas know.

    The ACS worker is obviously going to go and watch the child play to see if he is in any way traumatised. She’ll watch how the child plays with others and may or may not make something of it if the child is aggressive to the other children or if there is any sexual or rude acting out. Since there is no such thing as ‘normal’ play, pretty much anything could be seen as ‘abnormal’, except anything sexual.

    Please point out the family that if the ACS worker does come back with some kind of ‘problem’, they can point out to them that the child HAS BEEN TRAUMATISED – by ACS. Also, if the child can see the ACS worker at his pre-k, this may cause him to act out. They should be sending a different ACS worker in my opinion – one who the child has not seen and does not know is an ACS worker. At present, I’d imagine the child will associate this woman with negative experiences.

    I am not a social worker, a psychologist, or lawyer or anything that makes me qualified to say anything at all. I’m just a human being concerned for other human beings.

  12. Hazel December 8, 2016 at 12:35 pm #

    “Since there is no such thing as ‘normal’ play, pretty much anything could be seen as ‘abnormal’, except anything sexual.”

    Ooops, slightly misphrased – I mean any type of play could be seen as ‘abnornal’ due to no such thing as normal play (kids can be aggressive normally), except anything sexual, which is OBVIOUSLY abnormal (depending on context of course, doctors and nurses is a thing, though possibly not in the middle of a pre-k).

  13. ChicagoDad December 8, 2016 at 1:12 pm #

    I have a great idea for a free-range school fundraiser.

    The students all go get pledges, like you would for a fundraising run or jump-rope-athon.Then on a beautiful 60° Saturday in October, the kids sit in cars (windows down) in the school parking lot, earning their pledges for every minute they stay in the car. If they leave their car for any reason, they’re out. The last student in a car gets some awesome prize. All the proceeds go to the afterschool programs or some charity. It would probably last 4 or 5 hours until the last kid finally takes a restroom break.

    It would be huge! People would lose their minds. Donations would pour in. News crews would stake out the parking lot. An ambulence would show up, “just in case”. And each and every one of the kids would somehow miraculously survive this ordeal, completely unharmed, if maybe a little bored.

  14. Roger Banks December 8, 2016 at 1:31 pm #

    Why do they need to photograph a child with his clothes off?

    Why does the government want photographs of naked children?

  15. E December 8, 2016 at 1:46 pm #

    Hi, Can someone explain why they took the child to the hospital? I know we’ve read these stories about people calling police and them showing up at the cars, but I’m unclear as to what the reason given was to take the kid to the hospital. Was the weather severe? Was the child sick? Was the child screaming or something?

    I mean, yes this story is awful, but I’ve had my teen involved in car accidents where they don’t take them to the hospital. So this strikes me as very very strange.

    (Also, it’s nice that readers supply you with their name, but if he’d like to protect his family’s privacy it seems odd to publish his full name are of residence)

  16. fred schueler December 8, 2016 at 1:55 pm #

    ” Can someone explain why they took the child to the hospital?” – that one at least is easy. Their notion was that the child was unconscious rather than asleep, and since he woke up as if he had been asleep, this was obviously a complicated and abnormal kind of unconsciousness, and needed medical examination.

  17. LGB December 8, 2016 at 2:09 pm #

    @ChicagoDad, that’s an awesome idea! In response to the maintenance staff at my apartment complex constantly harassing children for climbing trees, we joke about doing something similar by having kids stage a “tree-in.” It’s similar to the “nurse-ins” that breastfeeding moms do, but this time, the kids all climb trees in protest and call local media to cover the event.

    As for photographing naked children, I’m beside myself. They ironically arrest other adults who do the same thing.

  18. Crystal December 8, 2016 at 2:13 pm #

    Lenore, can you keep us updated, please?

  19. En Passant December 8, 2016 at 2:34 pm #

    Jessica December 8, 2016 at 11:41 am:

    Also, the population of Asian people in this country is high enough that EVERY individual who works with little kids should be aware of what the dad calls “Mongolian butt” (looks like a bruise but isn’t). That should immediately be known as a total non-issue; why would they take photos??

    For those who do not know about the Mongolian Blue Spot birthmark, here is a link that explains it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongolian_spot

    It is a very common birthmark, as 90% or more infants in some populations are born with it.

  20. alex December 8, 2016 at 2:35 pm #

    ludicrous …. all this over reaction, and no attention is paid to the 800K children who have disappeared. All that wasted effort could sure come in handy going after those pedophile rings and the sick bastards that are involved.

  21. Michael Blackwood December 8, 2016 at 2:46 pm #

    They definitely need to sue ASAP. The city or county will prosecute them just to insure themselves against such suits. Whoever called the police/fire/children’s services should be sued for custodial interference because that is just what they did – they interfered with the parents’ right to raise their child. We let parents beat their children if they call it discipline. We let them take them to wacko churches who basically oppose science-based medicine. We let parents take their kids with them and join cults of all sorts. But if a parent dare raise their child to be a responsible, respectable adult and citizen we lock them up. Children are to be treated as pampered pets. The “owners” should dress them up and put them on display. Too many parents have abdicated parenthood and it’s responsibilities. It’s just too hard for them. It interferes with their lives.

  22. Buffy December 8, 2016 at 2:54 pm #

    There aren’t 800k missing kids caught up in pedophile rings.

  23. Gina December 8, 2016 at 3:05 pm #

    Horrible…ridiculous. BUT there are no “Valley Stream authorities” . Unless things have changed, this falls under the jurisdiction of the Nassau County Police Department.

  24. George December 8, 2016 at 3:06 pm #

    I sometimes take a nap in my car myself, in plain view of others in a parking lot. Am I at risk of someone bashing my window in and calling 911? Or do the do-gooders only care about small kids?

  25. James Pollock December 8, 2016 at 3:24 pm #

    “I sometimes take a nap in my car myself, in plain view of others in a parking lot. Am I at risk of someone bashing my window in and calling 911? Or do the do-gooders only care about small kids?”

    If anything, the do-gooders are even MORE likely to smash your window to let your dog out (if it’s a hot day, so… not likely in December.)

  26. John S December 8, 2016 at 6:06 pm #

    In my state, even if a report and/or allegation of child abuse does not have the accused parent/guardian/relative/
    caregiver wind up on the state’s sex offender registry, that person as a rule is place on the Child Maltreatment Registry, which remains a separate and distinct entity. Even if a s3x offender/registrant is removed from the SO registry, that person remains on the Maltreatment Registry, which many people don’t even know exists.

    While this dilemma holds in my state, I urge everyone who has had any sort of run-in with Child Protective Services or any similar group to find out if a similar Maltreatment Registry exists in the other 49, and in US territories as well.

    I would urge the Cheungs to get legal advice and representation to meet this need. Sadly but realistically, I strongly recommend finding an attorney who has experience with s3x offender cases and who really knows how such agencies and their people operate. The attorney must also be convinced from the start that the Cheungs are innocent.

    Is there any organization, watchdog/oversight agency, or any method to collect, collate, and make publicly available the number of similar cases in a given state? This could be one way of forcing our public (self-serving?) servants that real changes are needed?

  27. James Pollock December 8, 2016 at 6:51 pm #

    I’m going to offer a possibility. That’s all it is, a possibility.

    There may be some evidence that has not been relayed to us that makes the family look guilty. It may be innocent, it may be sinister. It may be known the Cheungs and not relayed to Lenore, or they may not even know about it. But there may be something that the “overreacting” authorities are aware of, that we are not, that would change our interpretation of events if we had it, too.

    If you’re confident that you know everything you need to know to reach a conclusion, well, good for you. I’m not there.

  28. Rachael December 8, 2016 at 7:57 pm #

    My kids would probably have looked at her and said, my mom said no one can see me naked.

    I’d be tempted to accuse the worker of child pornography. What right does she have to take and posess pictures of a naked child?!?!

  29. James Pollock December 8, 2016 at 8:54 pm #

    “I’d be tempted to accuse the worker of child pornography. What right does she have to take and posess pictures of a naked child?!?!”

    Nudity and pornography are not interchangeable terms.
    The “right” to take and possess pictures of a naked child come about because someone says they have marks on them that look like abuse.

  30. theresa December 8, 2016 at 9:45 pm #

    James you would think that but you be surprised how many times someone sees bathtime photos and freak out which means cops and cps and maybe even the public thinking that you’re doing child prone. All it takes is one rotten imagination.

  31. Michelle December 9, 2016 at 12:45 am #

    James, I can’t think of anything that a parent could do that would make it OK for a social worker to strip and photograph a child. If an examination needs to be done to check for abuse, that needs to be done by a qualified medical professional.

    My son had one of those birthmarks, and an ignorant doctor accused us of abuse. CPS had us get a second opinion from another doctor. They did not barge into our house and strip my son’s clothes off. That’s just inappropriate and unnecessarily traumatizing.

  32. En Passant December 9, 2016 at 1:25 am #

    James Pollock December 8, 2016 at 8:54 pm:

    The “right” to take and possess pictures of a naked child come about because someone says they have marks on them that look like abuse.

    From Mr. Cheung’s account above:

    She Interviewed my son alone. Made both children strip naked and a photo of my son’s behind was taken because he has Mongolian butt.

    Any Child Protective Services official who is unaware of Mongolian Blue Spot birthmarks, and how to distinguish them from bruises, should be peremptorily fired, and banned from public employment. That is inexcusable professional incompetence.

    To distinguish MBS from a bruise, you don’t have to be a physician.

    Bruises have edges you can feel with fingertips. MBS does not.

    Bruises cause pain or discomfort when touched or pressed. MBS does not.

    Bruises are swollen or raised and feel “hard” to the touch. MBS is not.

    Skin texture over a bruise is different from surrounding skin. MBS is not.

    The list goes on.

  33. sexhysteria December 9, 2016 at 2:19 am #

    Sounds very consistent with James Kincaid’s theory that some people are “concerned” about child abuse because they are secretly aroused by children. The guise of protection gives such people an excuse to look at nude photos of kids without feeling guilty – since they are only doing it to investigate possible abuse!

    I have a similar theory about the adult fear of so-called “overstimulation.” Adults who claim kids mustn’t enjoy sex play becuase it may “overstimulate them, are actually projecting their own vulnerability to being tempted or overstimulated to feel aroused by kids.

  34. James Pollock December 9, 2016 at 3:32 am #

    “James, I can’t think of anything that a parent could do that would make it OK for a social worker to strip and photograph a child.”
    So… your lack of imagination shapes your thinking.

    “If an examination needs to be done to check for abuse, that needs to be done by a qualified medical professional.”
    You’re confusing two different things here.
    The kid GOT an examination by a medical professional. Neither you nor I know the results.
    The social worker is documenting the case, not diagnosing.

    “My son had one of those birthmarks, and an ignorant doctor accused us of abuse.”
    Wow, you can turn on a dime. The medical professionals know best (in the first paragraph). The medical professionals are ignorant and incompetent (in the second paragraph).

    The CPS caseworker isn’t doing medical work. That’s not what they do. They do legal work. They gather evidence, and then present their findings, including a recommendation of what action, if any, to take.

    “That’s just inappropriate and unnecessarily traumatizing.”
    You may be right. You may be wrong. I don’t know which. I try not to reach conclusions before I have enough evidence to base them on. Here I have one person’s side of the story, it may have omissions or outright lies in it (I’m not accusing Mr. Cheung of either, but I can’t rule either one out, either.) It puts evidence into the file that the kid has birthmarks, not bruises. If there’s ever an accusation that the kid has bruises, a documented record of “nope. That’s not a bruise” works in your favor.

    “Any Child Protective Services official who is unaware of Mongolian Blue Spot birthmarks, and how to distinguish them from bruises, should be peremptorily fired, and banned from public employment. That is inexcusable professional incompetence.”
    My apologies, I didn’t realize that you were there, witnessed the events, and personally know the caseworker. I don’t have any of those advantages, however. Say… who said anyone who is a Child Protective Services official was unaware of Mongolian Blue Spot birthmarks, or how to distinguish them from bruises? This seems to be a detail you are providing.

    “To distinguish MBS from a bruise, you don’t have to be a physician.”
    You and Michelle, above, seem to disagree about this. She felt that “If an examination needs to be done to check for abuse, that needs to be done by a qualified medical professional.” Why don’t the two of you work this out, and get back to me when you’ve reached a consensus.

    “Bruises have edges you can feel with fingertips. MBS does not.
    Bruises cause pain or discomfort when touched or pressed. MBS does not.
    Bruises are swollen or raised and feel “hard” to the touch. MBS is not.”
    So… you want the caseworker touching the child?

    I’m staying with my original position… this seems like a wild overreaction to a kid found sleeping in a car while parents are inside the store. Faced with choosing between A) every person involved with this incident wildly over-reacted to a trivial accident, and B) there’s some information I don’t have, which affected all these people’s judgment, I’ve chosen “B” as the more likely explanation, which I will probably continue to hold until I have more information to work with. YMMV.

  35. Denise December 9, 2016 at 7:26 am #

    My community and the county settled a multi-million dollar lawsuit after they over-aggressively pursued charges against a father for ‘supposed’ abuse. It should happen more often and maybe these do-gooders would get the message.

  36. JulieH December 9, 2016 at 8:44 am #

    The part of this all that leaves me scratching my head (and leads me to agree with James that there is likely *something* we aren’t aware of): mom and dad BOTH come back out to the vehicle. Dad is arrested, but mom is allowed in the ambulance with the child. Why? It seems that both parents were *with* the child. What made the police determine that the dad endangered the child but the mother didn’t?

  37. common sense December 9, 2016 at 11:12 am #

    denise..could we get more detyails.

  38. Steve December 9, 2016 at 1:08 pm #

    I find it interesting, on another related issue of how things are treated, that both parents were present for this situation, but only the Dad was arrested. Were there other circumstances we’re missing in this story, is it just the regular routine to arrest dads and not moms?

  39. En Passant December 9, 2016 at 1:29 pm #

    James Pollock December 9, 2016 at 3:32 am:

    You and Michelle, above, seem to disagree about this. She felt that “If an examination needs to be done to check for abuse, that needs to be done by a qualified medical professional.” Why don’t the two of you work this out, and get back to me when you’ve reached a consensus.

    The child was examined at a hospital prior to the ACS caseworker’s soi disant “examination”. I think It is not unreasonable to assume that the hospital examination was performed by “qualified medical professionals”.

  40. Dad Cheung December 9, 2016 at 2:24 pm #

    I hope it is appropriate for me to respond on here. I understand anyone that feels that maybe there is more to the story. There really isn’t. If I read this story myself and it didn’t happen to me, I’m not sure I would believe it all either. We aren’t criminals. We do not have any criminal records. We weren’t on drugs or alcohol. Acs has never been called before. We have never abused our children. We pay our taxes and is a normal member of our society (so I thought). Our children are our entire world. They are both happy kids that laugh all the time. I work full time and my wife is a stay at home mother so she can raise the children herself. She has a bachelors in Psychology and decided not to pursue higher education or a career for now. We were both born and raised in NY. We are just a regular normal family. I believe I was arrested because I Was the first parent on the scene. I ran towards the emergency vehicles and the officer asked for my identification. I assume by doing so I took responsibility which is fine. I would have rather had it this way than have my wife get arrested instead of me. My wife came immediately after and immediately sent to the ambulance to see if my son was ok. I’m so grateful that we weren’t both arrested. Then who would be with my son in the hospital? My wife was at the hospital scared the entire time that maybe the police will come and arrest her and take away our children. We asked if all this was necessary and acs informed us this is standard procedure. The acs worker only took a photo of my 4yr old’s behind. She said she is aware of what Mongolian butt is, but she needs to take a photo because he’s “older”. I can only assume they think it should have gone away already? I don’t know for sure. I hope this may answer some of the questions that some people may have had. I thank everyone that has commented with support and kindness. It really means a lot to my wife and I to know we aren’t alone. I hope this doesn’t happen to anyone else. God bless

  41. Katie December 9, 2016 at 2:42 pm #

    Some people get really upset about kids in cars and I’m kind of starting to understand it now after the Georiga case -if you don’t believe me some people get upset go to twitter and type in #hotcardeath. Honestly, I don’t think people should be upset for someone calling. Particularly in the wake of the case with the 22month old in Georgia. Wouldn’t it have been good if someone called then? The reaction may or may not be a different story… as others have said we don’t have all the facts. But I don’t personally get leaving young kids alone in a car anyway. Or driving everywhere for that matter (leave the car at home sometimes and walk and if it is a stupid useless gas guzzler SUV throw it in the garbage).

  42. En Passant December 9, 2016 at 2:47 pm #

    Dad Cheung December 9, 2016 at 2:24 pm:

    I hope it is appropriate for me to respond on here… I thank everyone that has commented with support and kindness. It really means a lot to my wife and I to know we aren’t alone. I hope this doesn’t happen to anyone else. God bless.

    Thank you for following up Lenore’s report here.

    Most commenters here (and me too) think that you and your family have suffered a grievous wrong from the police and ACS.

    Please contact Lenore so she can put you in touch with the National Association of Parents. She is offering help for you to set right the official wrongoing. As Lenore mentioned above:

    At this point, I am alerting David DeLugas to the case. He’s founder of the National Association of Parents, a group dedicated to fighting government interference in unabusive homes.

  43. ACS out of control December 9, 2016 at 3:12 pm #

    “Hello, Elian Gonzalez? How did we storm your house again to rescue you?” (Queue Law and Order theme)

    Good grief! This is sad, sad, sad….If the ACS person has no knowledge of Asian heritage, i.e. MBS, or anyone at the hospital, et al, then it is a sad state of affairs. The kid will hopefully forget this sooner rather than later, but this is the time permanent memories are made and lifetime thoughts and feelings are retained towards people. In the end, the child may have a long time disdain for LE, ACS, medical personnel et al when seen because of what they did.

    It can be envisioned the ACS person will find something else at the school of someone else and then the web begins of investigation because the original intent has been superseded when nothing was found.

  44. James Pollock December 9, 2016 at 3:46 pm #

    “I think It is not unreasonable to assume that the hospital examination was performed by ‘qualified medical professionals’”

    Yes, I think so, too, which is why I said so in the comment you quoted from.

    But let’s get back to your assertion that he didn’t have to be…

    “I hope it is appropriate for me to respond on here. I understand anyone that feels that maybe there is more to the story. There really isn’t”
    This just means that they didn’t tell you whatever it is that made you look guilty of something. I could speculate (if your son was examined by a doctor unfamiliar with Mongolian blue spot birthmarks, that would explain it.) Sometimes circumstances conspire to make an innocent person look guilty, and it takes some investigation to discover this.

  45. SKL December 9, 2016 at 3:46 pm #

    Oh my goodness, a Mongolian spot. My daughter had one on her butt, and it seriously looked like a bruise from a horrific paddling. I hope the agents are knowledgeable about that kind of birthmark.

    $350 for a broken window is a rip-off.

    This whole thing is a great big nightmare.

    Knowing this goes on, we have to be practical. Who can blame a person who “overprotects” their kid when the alternative gets you this?

  46. En Passant December 9, 2016 at 6:39 pm #

    James Pollock December 9, 2016 at 3:46 pm:

    “I hope it is appropriate for me to respond on here. I understand anyone that feels that maybe there is more to the story. There really isn’t”
    This just means that they didn’t tell you whatever it is that made you look guilty of something. I could speculate (if your son was examined by a doctor unfamiliar with Mongolian blue spot birthmarks, that would explain it.) Sometimes circumstances conspire to make an innocent person look guilty, and it takes some investigation to discover this.

    Perhaps I do not understand your hypothesis correctly.

    It appears you hypothesize or speculate that these events occurred, in this approximate order:

    1. The physician(s) at the hospital were ignorant of MBS birthmarks.
    2. They decided that the marks were bruises or signs of recent physical abuse.
    3. They did not notify the parents of their decision or finding.
    4. They then released the child to the custody of his parents.
    5. They notified ACS of their findings.

    Have I understood your hypothesis correctly?

  47. James Pollock December 9, 2016 at 10:56 pm #

    “4. They then released the child to the custody of his parents.”

    Huh? Who is “they”, and when and how did they get custody of the child?

    “Have I understood your hypothesis correctly?”
    No.

  48. En Passant December 10, 2016 at 12:56 am #

    James Pollock December 9, 2016 at 10:56 pm:

    “4. They then released the child to the custody of his parents.”

    Huh? Who is “they”, and when and how did they get custody of the child?

    “Have I understood your hypothesis correctly?”
    No.

    The antecedent of “They” in the sequence I wrote is the physicians or other hospital personnel, who released the child to Mr. and Mrs. Cheung after Mr. Cheung was released from jail.

    According to the account in the post:

    Dad was released later that same day. He picked up his son and wife at the hospital, arrived home around 10 p.m., and a Child Protective Services worker arrived around midnight to investigate the parents and home.

    So, Mr. and Mrs. Cheung had custody of their child at home for at least a couple hours before ACS arrived.

    I am trying to understand what you called the “circumstances [that] conspire to make an innocent person look guilty”. I assumed, perhaps in error, that those “circumstances” were the sequence of events that you believe occurred.

    That is all.

  49. James Pollock December 10, 2016 at 2:42 am #

    “The antecedent of “They” in the sequence I wrote is the physicians or other hospital personnel, who released the child”
    After some tense interactions with the hostage negotiator, presumably.

    “Mr. and Mrs. Cheung had custody of their child at home for at least a couple hours before ACS arrived.”
    Mr. and Mrs. Cheung had custody of their children before, during, and after this incident. There isn’t any point in time in which they did not have custody.

    “I am trying to understand what you called the “circumstances [that] conspire to make an innocent person look guilty”.
    These are near infinite in variety.

    “I assumed, perhaps in error, that those “circumstances” were the sequence of events that you believe occurred.”
    I don’t have any sequence of events that I believe occurred. Go back to the comment… here’s a link directly to it:
    http://www.freerangekids.com/more-wild-investigation-of-family-that-let-son-wait-in-car-20-minutes-boy-is-stripped-naked-photographed/#comment-467882
    Hint: Re-read the first paragraph. Re-read the last paragraph. Which one of these leads you to think that I have a “sequence of events that (I) believe occurred”?

    I’m sticking with the conclusion I shared last night, which was (and still is).
    “I’m staying with my original position… this seems like a wild overreaction to a kid found sleeping in a car while parents are inside the store. Faced with choosing between A) every person involved with this incident wildly over-reacted to a trivial accident, and B) there’s some information I don’t have, which affected all these people’s judgment, I’ve chosen “B” as the more likely explanation, which I will probably continue to hold until I have more information to work with. YMMV.”

  50. Becks Reay December 10, 2016 at 7:06 am #

    I just feel this is the most horrendous violation on this family and on the kids personally. Meanwhile children are being raped, abused and neglected for real and no-one notices for years. And the 911 caller is probably going about their business oblivious to the carnage they caused.

    I feel sick about it.

  51. Beth December 10, 2016 at 7:47 am #

    Please stop feeding the troll.

  52. En Passant December 10, 2016 at 3:06 pm #

    James Pollock December 10, 2016 at 2:42 am:

    I’m sticking with the conclusion I shared last night, which was (and still is).
    “I’m staying with my original position… this seems like a wild overreaction to a kid found sleeping in a car while parents are inside the store. Faced with choosing between A) every person involved with this incident wildly over-reacted to a trivial accident, and B) there’s some information I don’t have, which affected all these people’s judgment, I’ve chosen “B” as the more likely explanation, which I will probably continue to hold until I have more information to work with. YMMV.”

    I have no idea what relevant information you believe you don’t have (nor does anyone else in this forum as far as I can tell). This unknown missing information seems to bear on what you called “circumstances [that] conspire to make an innocent person look guilty”. But maybe it doesn’t.

    I and others who do not have your insight would like to know the nature of the information you believe is missing. It might persuade me or others that we have misunderstood or misinterpreted the undisputed facts which have been reported so far.

    But, as Beth observed above, I have reluctantly concluded that a reasonable discussion of the matter is not possible.

    HAND.

  53. Hamilton December 11, 2016 at 12:48 pm #

    As I sit here eating breakfast next to my awesome five year old, (No. 1) who was phoned in as a bomb threat on Long Island, I’m so glad we stayed under the radar as much as we could there. We were just visiting the island for two years of physics research, but having heard stories like this one, when it came time for our daughter’s home birth, we toodled back across the country to Texas four weeks before she was due. When No. 1 needed vaccinations we flew back to TX to visit the grandparents and our pediatrician there.

    Perhaps our lack of trust in the ‘system’ had something to do with the nurse at the natural birthing center on Long Island denying us service after my then girlfriend, now wife missed an appointment because she was away at a national laboratory near Chicago finishing part of the particle detector she was building. The nurse imperiously told us that No. 1’s mom could return if she submitted to a tox screen to make sure she wasn’t using opiates.

    Oh, and the car thing? We did that out there too. Thank goodness, with a dog instead of a kid, and luckily for us no one went to jail. On a nice cool day, we left the dog in the car while we went to show our department head around the lab. An hour later we returned to find our dog holding three police officers out of the car. At the behest of a concerned citizen, the officers had broken into our car to do a ‘weffare check’ on the dog. One of them had managed to get far enough into the car to pop the hood so the battery wire could be pulled, disabling the blaring car alarm.

    To be fair, the officer took me off to the side, and said, “Thank God you’re here, that lady wouldn’t let us leave.” I have to write this up somehow now, so I’m just giving you a warning.” I think this is an unmentioned part of the problem. The police didn’t want to be there, and would have rather left, but they felt bound by ‘rules’.

  54. James Pollock December 11, 2016 at 8:49 pm #

    “I have reluctantly concluded that a reasonable discussion of the matter is not possible.”

    Because when you repeatedly ask for details you’ve already been told I don’t have, I keep telling you those are details I don’t have? That’s obviously a failure on my part.

    However, I’ll try one more time… I think there are facts that I don’t have, which prevent me from reaching a conclusion. These are details that I do not have… there’s no point in asking me about the details of these facts, becau8se (duh) I do not have them.

  55. Tiny Tim December 12, 2016 at 7:10 am #

    my inlaws got a call from social services because the school nurse (i think it was a school nurse) saw the “mongolian butt” on their son and thought it was a beating.

  56. Anne Charming December 13, 2016 at 1:10 pm #

    Can’t the dad technically accuse the firefighters of attempting to abuduct the child?

  57. Madeleine December 13, 2016 at 4:59 pm #

    This is a slippery slope. Think Kafka. Social Services whether called ACS (Administration for Children’s Services in NYC) or any other brand of Child Protection Services has a free rein.

    One attorney once said that when you (Social Services) is the hammer, everyone else is the nail.

    The best thing to do, in my humble opinion, is to hire an attorney immediately,

    Sue them, sure you might be able to but not until your children are safe and free from their grasp.

  58. Ben December 15, 2016 at 2:15 pm #

    A kid was stripped naked when there was no good reason to and when any good reason could’ve been dealt with at the hospital? I’m not one to sue quickly, but this makes me want to sue these people so badly. It’s not just an overreaction. They’re acting criminal towards this family.

  59. Mygaffer December 16, 2016 at 11:45 pm #

    Why is are there zero sources for this story? I couldn’t find anything reported online. Do you have some corroborating evidence, like a police report?