Calling a High School Sex Tape “Child Porn” Leads to a 16-Year-Old’s Suicide

This piece comes to us from Sandy Rozek, communications director with the National Association for Rational Sex Offender Laws. One of Sandy’s primary concerns is implementing effective measures that will aid in reducing the sexual abuse of children. She is especially disturbed when children are threatened with and harmed by the registry, something that purports to help protect them.

Reckless threat of registration brings death to son, family

By Sandy

“They scared him to death.” When Maureen Walgren of Naperville, Illinois, said this, referring to the conversation that school officials and law enforcement had with her 16-year-old honor student son Corey, she meant it literally.

Corey was at lunch on a normal school day in his high school this past January when he was called into the office. Waiting for him was the campus dean and a police officer. They questioned him about what was alleged to be an image on his phone of a consensual sexual encounter with a female classmate, also 16. The accusation was possession of and possibly sharing “child pornography.” Evidence strongly suggests that the threat of being registered as a sexual offender on the state’s public registry was made.

Only at that point were attempts made to contact his parents. Corey was told that his mother was on the way to the school, and he was left alone to wait for her.

At some point before she arrived, Corey left. Leaving his car at school, he walked a mile and threw himself off of a six-story parking garage. His death was not instantaneous, but it came before his mother could get to him and be with him in his dying moments.

As it turned out, the images on the phone were so black that nothing could be seen. Even though audio of the encounter was discernible, police records indicate that they would not have pressed charges after all. If only they had waited until the investigation was finished before they threatened him with child pornography and the registry, the story may well have had a different ending.

Corey was an excellent student. He was a good athlete and a popular young man; over 2000 people attended his funeral. He was fortunate to have involved, supportive parents and to have been raised in a loving, supportive home. He was a sweet, friendly, well-liked, high school junior who was planning with those parents which colleges to visit in order to narrow down his application choices. He had never been in any trouble at all. Just the weekend before, he had talked to his parents about his choice to have a sexual encounter, his first, at this point in his life, and he recognized that it was not the wisest of decisions.

It is a decision that has been made by countless high school students over countless years. Many, many of them reached the same conclusion that Corey was reaching. Many, many of them have done what we hope for all of our children: learn from their mistakes and unwise decisions and make better ones in the future.

Sadly, sad almost beyond words, that is something that Corey will never be able to do.

My heart is aching. Reading the source article in the Chicago Tribune, it sounds as if the young man may (or may not) have shared the audio with his friends. Of course it is horrible to betray a partner’s trust. But this is a case for education, or even some punishment, not the registry.

And not death. – L

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Corey Walgren, NOT a child pornographer. R.I.P.

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127 Responses to Calling a High School Sex Tape “Child Porn” Leads to a 16-Year-Old’s Suicide

  1. common sense May 23, 2017 at 7:37 pm #

    f**k the registry and the “adults” who felt the need to tell a 16 year old they were going to destroy his life. with all the horror stories of how the registry is used , a sweet loving boy felt ending his life was the only way out. I hope all those who hounded him with threats
    [over NOTHING] live the rest of their lives remembering him everyday but of course they’ll rationalize by saying “we have to protect the children even if it means killing them”

  2. Dienne May 23, 2017 at 7:57 pm #

    Did the girl know she was being recorded? If not, that’s a felony, enacted into law by Governor Quinn in 2014 largely for this kind of reason. For that matter, do we know the sex was indeed fully consensual? The article says that the Tribune was not able to contact the girl or her family, so we only have his family’s version of the story. Sure, she’s not filing charges (at least, she didn’t before his death), but I wonder if there was an allegation/rumor that the sex was coerced or otherwise not fully voluntary. That as much as the police involvement might account for Corey’s reaction. I wonder if fessing up to his parents was a way to inoculate them in advance should such rumors/allegations come to light.

    I feel for this family and this is a tragedy, but I also feel for this girl. Image if the image had come out better. It seems evident that at the very least Corey was planning to show off for his buddies (thereby shaming the girl). The word for that is cad.

  3. James Pollock May 23, 2017 at 8:39 pm #

    “Corey Walgren, NOT a child pornographer.”

    Well, as the laws stand now, he was. It’s dumb that this is true, but denial won’t make it any less true.

    When my offspring was still underage, there was a case of a prosecution of an underage girl for production and distribution of child porn in which she was the only participant. I discussed the news story with my daughter. Yes, it can be illegal to make recordings of nudity and sex, where the nudity and sex are 100% legal and the recording is a class-A felony. Yes, that’s pretty messed up.

  4. jim smith May 23, 2017 at 9:03 pm #

    will there be any consequences for the police and school official who threatened him?

  5. donald May 23, 2017 at 9:16 pm #

    Dienne asked, “Did the girl know that she was being recorded”? She the promptly determined that she didn’t and arrived at the conclusion that he was showing off to his mates. She might be right. She might be wrong. I think the family has suffered enough without baseless allegations. That being said, under 18 boys and girls take nude selfies and post them to each other. By the letter of the law, this is the distribution of child pornography and has been discussed on this site many times.

    This says more about Dienne than it does about the poor guy that died or his giving parents. Don’t you think they already suffered enough? The story is more about zero tolerance laws and the destruction that they cause.

  6. lollipoplover May 23, 2017 at 9:36 pm #

    This is heartbreaking for the family.

    We had a middle school nude video controversy that was shared among several students but it was handled between the students, parents, and guidance counselors without escalating. Teenagers are going to make mistakes. Police threats and sex offender registries to scare kids into suicide should have every school doing some serious soul searching.

  7. theresa May 23, 2017 at 10:45 pm #

    As much I would love it those idiots who thought threating a student was good idea to pay. I have feeling that somehow they will get off. At the most a scolding will be given to them.

  8. John S May 24, 2017 at 12:24 am #

    A long time ago I was falsely accused of child molestation. Pressure was immediately placed on me to cut a “deal” with the authorities, and the pressure was increased when later my own attorney urged the same thing. At first, when I indicated I could disprove the allegations–one important argument was my being roughly 140 miles from the alleged crime scene, with eyewitnesses and papers to back me up–the prosecution decided I was too good an example of getting tough on crime, so they quickly amended the charges. This move, abetted by my attorney’s pressuring me to enter a nolo contendere plea as part of a plea bargain, or else face a trial, at which I would lose “no matter what evidence and defense I could put up” (the attorney’s words, not mine!). I caved in to my fears, took the plea, and have been on my state’s SO Registry ever since. Please don’t say I should have stood my ground–what happened to me has with a few variants happened to thousands of others accused, including more than a few who were falsely accused. You cannot with any validity opine on my case, or Corey’s, or anyone else’s, unless you yourself have directly experienced the emotional pain, whether you are innocent or guilty as charged; or are the parent, spouse, sibling, child of someone who has been through this uniquely horrendous, prolonged nightmare.

    There were times before the plea, and there have been times ever since then when I have thought of suicide. I can easily relate to and understand more than a little the shock, pain, mind-numbing disbelief Corey Walgren experienced. This young man was “introduced” to his hell with such suddenness and pressure; from what I read it appears the authorities were running a bluff the likes of which a professional, polished con artist wuld use, perhaps a champion poker player. Get the accused to confess, to admit to the crime (crimes if possible), and follow what should be the path of least resistance to get the desired results. I believe I can fairly accurately guess how quickly his world crumbled, and it proved more than he could stand. So far I have not pushed my self over the line, the point of no return; at one point I got mad and thought I’d outlast the b******s who falsely accused me of sexual abuse.

    Not too long ago, I was ordered to undergo a reassessment at my state’s SOR office. I was called a liar, and designated as not only still a threat, but I was upped into a higher risk category. Later I found out that that office was essentially doing the same thing with the majority of those being reassessed. From what I’ve learned such actions had 2 basic motivations: making everyone look good for being “still tough on crime”, and working to qualify for as much state and federal funding as possible. The people in that office were in no way interested that I had not been the source of any trouble for a very long time; their decision flies in the face of respected, peer-reviewed research. And I remain on my state’s SO Registry. Yes, there have been some more recent moments when I’ve heard the siren-song, “You can get out of your trouble, and you know how you can do it. Come, find peace and freedom from the suffering, the losses you’ve faced. All you have to do . . . .”

    The circumstances Corey Walgren faced included immediate, overwhelming shock; what many people would define and call bullying on the part of the police; very probably no one being there who tried to really uncover the truth. I suspect, and please correct me if I’m wrong, school officials may have been from the start thinking of protecting the reputation of the school and everyone else there. As far as Cory knew, his world was destroyed. Sadly, he was more than ready to listen to the siren-song.

    Maybe all I can do for the Walgren family is empathize; maybe all I can say to them, up to a point, is “Been there.” Maybe more effective thoughts and words will come to me at some future moment. I wish I could reach out to the Walgrens and offer what comfort I can.

    Please, everyone–look to solid, smart reforms of sex offender laws, so there will not be any more Corey Walgrens. So many people blithely argue, “If the laws save even one child, then they’re OK.” The laws did not save this one child. Whose son or daughter is next?

  9. hineata May 24, 2017 at 12:32 am #

    Another teen who did something silly and possibly a bit harmful and who has thrown his life away, this time quite literally. Nothing but sadness for this poor boy and his family :-(.

  10. donald May 24, 2017 at 2:34 am #

    When you make Kool-aid, you need to read the instructions. It makes about a quart or two. (don’t remember) If you add 1,200 gallons of water to the mix, you don’t get 1,200 gallons of Kool-aid! However, we treat sex offender laws this way. What we end up doing is watering it down so much that the actually dangerous sex offenders can hide between the 95% of the people that don’t belong on there!

    The over the top sex offender laws are the result of political grandstanding. They’re for building a reputation of, “Look at me! I’m tough on crime”! It doesn’t take into consideration about all of the lives that they’re destroying! Besides once people get labeled as sex offenders, who cares about the injustice? (convoluted snark) They’re sex offenders! Who cares about them! As long as I get more votes, I don’t care how many suicides that I cause!

  11. Dienne May 24, 2017 at 6:45 am #

    “…and arrived at the conclusion that he was showing off to his mates”

    How else did anyone know what he had on his phone?

    Okay, I suppose it’s possible that the girl was a willing partner in everything that happened, the sex and the recording. Then, just for spite, she cries foul just to get him in trouble, for spite, I suppose. If that’s the case, then she’s a capital B witch and he is a victim, yes. But do you see that if you assume that’s the case, you’re making unproven allegations about her? She too has the presumption of innocence.

    I think it’s far more likely that she didn’t know about the recording – that’s why the images were black. If she’d have known about it, they could have made sure the recording was good. But presumably he had to hide it, which is why it didn’t turn out well.

    If he did record her without her consent, not only is that a felony in Illinois as noted, but it also makes the whole thing non-consensual. What she thought she was consenting to was an intimate encounter with a boy she thought liked/cared about/maybe even loved her. But what she was actually getting involved in was the making of an amateur porn video. If she didn’t know that’s what she was getting involved in, that’s exploitation, which is why it’s a felony.

    Another thing, the linked article is absurdly sympathetic to the mother’s point of view. If this boy was half the angel she makes him out to be, he should be nominated for sainthood ASAP. Perhaps we shouldn’t speak ill of the dead, but let’s not make them out to be more than they were either. He was a teenage boy with flaws, like all teenagers.

    In fact, the only voice we hear in the linked article is Corey’s family. The school and the police can’t talk about the case, so we can’t hear their side of the story. The girl and her family have chosen not to talk to the media (probably because she’s already being blamed for his death – another reason she is as much or more a victim in this than he was), so we don’t hear their voices. I think if we could hear other voices, a different picture would emerge, much like the case of poor, innocent, wronged Mike Tang.

    And finally, we need to be really careful about blaming anyone for anyone else’s suicide. Corey made the choice to leave the school when he knew his mother was on her way. If his parents were as wonderful and supportive as the article makes out, he should have known they’d have his back. But instead he chose to take the coward’s way out and jump (not fall) off a parking garage. No one made him do that. He had other choices. Courage is facing your fear. He chose not to. Could the school and the police have handled it better? Absolutely. But that doesn’t make them responsible for his death.

  12. Dienne May 24, 2017 at 6:53 am #

    Incidentally, this: “Don’t you think they already suffered enough?”

    Michael Brown’s family had already suffered enough when he died, don’t you think? Did you have the same concerns when his name was being dragged through the mud? Parents suffer when their child dies, yes. It’s tragic and I’m sorry. But that doesn’t mean we need to whitewash anything and not look into what truly happened. If Corey recorded that encounter without the girl’s knowledge, that was a felony and he’s not a poor, innocent victim. Should he have been on a sex offender registry for life? No – I don’t think any underage perpetrator should have any consequences that foreclose on the rest of their lives. But, in fact, the police said that’s not what they were going to do anyway. If Corey had been able to face the music he would have realized that.

  13. LJ May 24, 2017 at 7:58 am #

    Dienne I think the problem people are having with your comments is your focus on guessing potential crimes. It seems the more humane approach to looking at this situation is to wait and see what if anything comes to light. I imagine there is plenty we don’t know but don’t think using this family’s tragedy to speculate is wise.
    It seems like what we do know is enough to talk about. This kid was intimidated by the police and school administrators to such a degree that he made the choice to commit suicide. Anyone who knows adolescent development, like a HS administrator should, could have been sensitive to the fact that delivering news to the kid that he may be placed on a sex offender registry would lead an adolescent to some pretty black and white thinking about his future. Thinking like, “I have no future, my life is over.” That threat (registry) to an adult would be hard to process but adolescents do not process emotionally charged information in the same way as adults. This would have been a meeting that the school should have invited the parents to at the very least.
    P.s. Dienne, I think a completely innacuous way the video could have come to light is that it was talked about amongst those in the know (the kids’ friends) and then somebody told somebody who told a teacher/administrator.

  14. Andrew May 24, 2017 at 8:14 am #

    Is it really the case that minors are interrogated by the police about serious offences, without being offered a lawyer, and without their parents being called? That their mobile phones can be searched like this?

    Time for a class on the rights of a person accused of a crime. The dean and the police officer are not there to help you.

    No you may not search my phone. If I am not under arrest, I am leaving right now. And I’m not answering any questions until my parent or lawyer arrives.

  15. Chris May 24, 2017 at 8:28 am #

    Dienne, although I appreciate that you are not arguing for life-time registration for juveniles, your comments are monstrous towards this young man. Your “if he would have been able to face the music” comment is one of the most sneering and cruel things I’ve seen on the internet in a while. And I’m on twitter! You should feel shame. That is an awful comment, and based on it I have to assume you are awful.

    Assuming it was a felony, which I question how likely an audio only occurrence is to yield any type of case, did he deserve death? As another commenter pointed out, people who work with teenagers should understand how the adolescent brain works and not randomly threaten them with life-time consequences. I’m sure the perpetrators had a good laugh, thinking they’d scared him straight. You know, before he killed himself.

    Why are you even on this site? What kind of Free Range person would say the horrible things you are saying. Go to some website for monsters and post your drivel please.

  16. Dienne May 24, 2017 at 8:28 am #

    “I think a completely innacuous way the video could have come to light is that it was talked about amongst those in the know (the kids’ friends)….”

    Um, that’s kind of exactly my point. How did his friends know if he wasn’t bragging about it to them? There’s nothing innocuous about that, at least not for the girl.

    Anyway, I think the speculation is important. If he recorded the sexual encounter with this girl without her knowledge and consent, then he is not the innocent martyr he’s being made out to be. That action has consequences – doubly so now that he committed suicide. The girl in this story matters, yet people are trying to erase her. The only way this situation can be truly processed in any kind of productive way is if it is acknowledged what exactly is being processed. Idealizing the dead doesn’t help anything.

  17. Dienne May 24, 2017 at 8:33 am #

    Chris – I thought one of the tenets of Free Range parenting is accepting the consequences of one’s actions? I’m sorry, but suicide is a choice and a vicious one at that. Kids face devastating consequences all the time without choosing to end their lives. Suicide is cowardly, considering the impact it has on people left behind, and it’s a choice made only by the one who chooses to do it. No one forces anyone into suicide. I’m not sure what’s so cruel about saying he couldn’t face the music – clearly he couldn’t.

  18. Dienne May 24, 2017 at 8:52 am #

    Incidentally, I’ll be out most of the day, so feel free to continue to call me a monster, but I won’t be around to respond. Personally I think it’s kind of monstrous that no one seems to care about the girl.

  19. Jessica May 24, 2017 at 8:54 am #

    This is about the sex-offender registry. It is also, though, about the police. The police can often do anything they want (okay, I realize they can’t literally do ANYTHING) with no consequences. They can interrogate a child without his parents. They can lie (they can say they have XYZ evidence when they don’t) but you can’t lie back. They can threaten you with impossible punishments in order to scare you into confessing. I’m not anti-police at all, but I do think we need better protections for suspects.

  20. Chris May 24, 2017 at 9:05 am #

    Dienne, I am not unconcerned for the girl, but she was not threatened into suicide by the authorities. She will pretty likely be fine, except for someone being driven to suicide in her name. That is probably the worst trauma to her at this point.

    Do you blame all the people who commit suicide, or just the teenage boys? Here in Cincinnati, an 8 year old was driven to suicide by bullying (actual physical attacks) at school. Horrible, tragic story; would you like me to send a link so you can attack that kid too?

    Until the age of 21 roughly, the ability to think about long-term is spotty at best. That is what science tells us. Sure, suicide probably isn’t the best choice, but to go on Free Range Kids and attack kids who commit suicide is just terrible. I can only speak for my understanding of Free Range parenting, but I feel somewhat comfortable saying attacking people who kill themselves as weak and selfish is not a part of the philosophy.

  21. Sheryl K. May 24, 2017 at 9:07 am #

    Bashing the victim is what I see in several comments,I also see the BOYS and his family!Ike’s side. He was a young kid, HD screwed up, but IMHO he knew what he was doing was wrong. That’s the point of the police and investigators.

    He killed himself, that’s very very tragic and he may have committed suicide from the shame of his situation.

    He may also have done this to the victim from some underlying problems at home or from having mental issues that were overlooked.

    What if the victim or her family reads this article, basically blaming her?!. What if she committee suicide from being blamed for being the victim?.

    Victim bashing in order to downplay any sexual crime is what ALLOWED RAPISTS TO WALK FREE!.

    Remember hearing the excuse that women and teens that are raped “asked for it”?. This line of thought e his those times.

  22. Jennifer C May 24, 2017 at 9:24 am #

    According to the Illinois Council of School Attorneys:

    ‘When acting under the direction of the police, the school official is required to obtain a parent’s or guardian’s permission before questioning a student and Miranda requirements may apply. When Miranda requirements do apply, law enforcement agents, not school officials, should administer the Miranda warnings.’

    There was also a Supreme Court Decision stating that juveniles should be Mirandized in any situation which may be construed as custodial. The article doesn’t say whether he was or not, but if the police didn’t inform him of his rights and no attempt was made to contact his parents prior to questioning, that was a serious mistake.

    Also why wasn’t someone with him, to prevent him from leaving the school and doing what he did?

  23. Jennifer C May 24, 2017 at 9:28 am #

    Sheryl, what victim? Do you have any proof that it was not consensual? Because otherwise it’s just speculation. This was not an adult taking advantage of a minor–both of these people were 16.

  24. Chris May 24, 2017 at 9:31 am #

    Sheryl K., I can’t speak for anyone but myself, but I blame the female absolutely zero, and I didn’t sense any blame of her from Lenore or really anyone else. This is about overzealous state actors trying to scare a kid, and succeeding to the point that he killed himself. As I said previously, I think those same authorities revictimized her by driving this young man to suicide in her name. However mad she was, I sincerely doubt she wanted death for him.

  25. Chris May 24, 2017 at 9:38 am #

    Sheryl K., you are making this case into something it is not. This was not a case to avenge that Stanford rich kid’s light punishment or Steubenville; this was a 16 year old who was driven to suicide by over-zealous state actors.

  26. LJ May 24, 2017 at 9:51 am #

    Dienne I said talked about by the kids- either girl or boy could have shared that they had video of their encounter. We simply do not know.
    What I’ve been made aware of a lot by the adolescents I know and ones I work with is that they share a lot of their bodies and sexuality with one another via social media. So I maintain it could be innacuous but we simply do not know yet.

  27. common sense May 24, 2017 at 10:21 am #

    dienne.we don’t know that it came to light because it was on his phone and he bragged. how do we know the girl didn’t record it and send it to him? I’m not blaming either one but you almost seem glad he killed himself. and calling a 16 yearold cowardly? just how “brave” and”ready to face the music” would you have been if you were accused of child porn? as far as I’m concerned people like you are the monsters, ready to accuse and justify just because he’s a male and one sized fits all, cookie cutter, zero tolerance policies seem fair and just to you. he was a child[so was she] and children make mistakes. it doesn’t mean we should hound and scare them to death. if you read the unwind series of books, you would probably imagine yourself as one who sends kids to their death just because they don’t live up to all your standards. to the rest of the people here I send my apologies for the rant, but who here as a teen did not make a mistake?

  28. James Pollock May 24, 2017 at 10:36 am #

    “Um, that’s kind of exactly my point. How did his friends know if he wasn’t bragging about it to them? There’s nothing innocuous about that, at least not for the girl.”

    Maybe HIS friends heard about it from HER friends, because she was bragging about it. Without further evidence, it is as reasonable to assume the encounter came about because she pursued him as it is to assume he pursued her. You’ve also assumed that the recording at issue originated on his phone… not so. He may have gotten the recording from her.
    Speculating about details not disclosed is one thing; acting as if one’s own preconceived notions MUST be the truth is quite another.

    This is a case where, yes, the law was violated, but, as far as we known from the information provided, justice does not demand that the offender be prosecuted, and justice has not been served by the outcome.

  29. marie May 24, 2017 at 10:43 am #

    Let’s go whole-hog with speculation and say that this boy was just an awful kid who committed assault, recorded the attack, and shared it with his buddies who all laughed at the unfortunate girl.

    EVEN THEN, ESPECIALLY THEN, his civil rights are paramount.Bad cops would have screwed up an important investigation by not respecting his rights. If the boy were still with us, he could avoid prosecution because a stupid cop messed up. What justice then for the girl?

    Even if he were guilty of all of that, his suicide is not acceptable. The cop and the dean went too far. Their eagerness to impress on the boy the gravity of the situation by making threats had a terrible result and I hope their remorse wakes them in the middle of the night for a long, long time.

    Do I think this was an awful kid? NO. I think it is possible that kids that age screw up. Kids that age do things without thinking. They have sex. They think sex is wildly exciting and something worth talking about. They have tools at their fingertips that let them do stupid stuff that we couldn’t do when we were that age but probably would have if the princess phone had a camera and wifi access.

    Talking about whether Corey committed a crime is not useful here. The registry is terrifying. Surely the cop knows that or he wouldn’t have used that particular threat.

    Without the registry, maybe we could talk about sex crimes with some sense of scale. No longer would unwise sex hold the promise of a lifetime punishment. Before your kids or grandkids get caught up in something that could easily land them on the registry, talk to your legislators about abolishing the registry. It protects no one and puts huge numbers at risk.

  30. James Pollock May 24, 2017 at 10:45 am #

    “There was also a Supreme Court Decision stating that juveniles should be Mirandized in any situation which may be construed as custodial. The article doesn’t say whether he was or not, but if the police didn’t inform him of his rights and no attempt was made to contact his parents prior to questioning, that was a serious mistake.”

    There was an old technique for questioning. It went like this. Detain the individual and begin questioning. Get them to make material admissions. Then, Mirandize them and lead them to make the same admission(s).
    Court cases have subsequently established that this approach does not pass Constitutional muster.

    Note, however, that the penalty for failing to observe Miranda requirements is having the statement(s) collected in violation of a person’s rights excluded from admission in court. If the authorities in question don’t intend to proceed to court, inadmissibiliy is a toothless remedy.

  31. SKL May 24, 2017 at 10:50 am #

    To me the bigger question is why this would lead a young man to jump off a building.

    In my experience, it’s not that unusual to be hauled into a room and threatened with Big Consequences because of stupid choices. I wouldn’t be surprised at all if it happens to my kids at some point. I hope that they would not consider that the end of the world. I hope my kids will realize that they will get through that and much bigger things. They don’t need to be perfect in order to have a successful life.

    To me, the fact that this “otherwise perfect” boy was not able to tolerate life under this cloud suggests that he might have had some emotional problems. And if that is the case, if he was so fragile, I would hesitate to blame others for his choice.

  32. Workshop May 24, 2017 at 11:23 am #

    Let me get this straight . . .

    Bullying is bad if a student intimidates another student.
    Bullying is bad if social media is used to shame or harass another student.
    Bullying is bad if parents use their position of power to abuse/harass/intimidate their child.
    Bullying is bad if you’re the boss and harass/intimidate an underling.

    Bullying is okay if you’re a school administrator.
    Bullying is okay if you’re a police officer.

    So . . . as long as my job involves interacting with young people, it seems like bullying is allowed, not only by the powers that be, but by enough citizens that I can safely assume society will condone my actions. Adults can bully children as long as enough people believe it’s “their job.”

    Good to know.

  33. Michael Lewyn May 24, 2017 at 12:10 pm #

    Someone should propose a Corey’s Law– since laws related to sex offenses always seem to be named after a victim.

  34. John B. May 24, 2017 at 12:41 pm #

    I would hope that a huge wrongful death lawsuit is in the works but I wouldn’t know the legality of all that. I think a similar thing happened a few years back at an Alabama HS where a 15-year-old kid made the immature decision to streak (naked) across the football field during a game. So instead of suspending him for 2 weeks and making him write a letter of apology to the community in the editorial column of the local newspaper and then allowing him to move on with his life, the school gets law enforcement involved and the kid is then threatened with placement on the sex offender registry. The poor boy then commits suicide. B,B,B,B,But these tough laws are needed to protect the kids!! Yea, right.

    Unfortunately this story and the one I just mentioned will not gain any traction in the media. People will not show one iota of sympathy towards this young man and his family because he had “child pornography” on his cell phone. But yet we still cry for Jerry Sandusky’s victims who are all now multi-millionaires.

  35. Andrea May 24, 2017 at 12:43 pm #

    My daily reminder that I hate people.

  36. Shelly Stow May 24, 2017 at 12:46 pm #

    SKL, you ask, “…why this would lead a young man to jump off a building.”

    Well, for starters, if he were on the registry, he and his parents could tear up those college applications; even if a school would take him, and many won’t, he would be the sex offender on campus and shunned and protested by all.

    He could forget that career as an engineer or any of the other lofty aspirations he held. He would be lucky to get hired driving an 18 wheeler or working in some place where he would never, ever, ever come in contact — or a 1000 feet — of a minor.

    Depending on the restrictions, he might not even be allowed to continue living at home with his parents. They would have to move or have him live with other relatives whose residence was “approved” by the state.

    He quite possibly would be barred from the Internet and not allowed a phone or laptop.

    That’s just the beginning; for a fuller view of what happens to kids when they are put on the registry, click on the link that Lenore has put with National Association for Rational Sexual Offense Laws and read the piece directed to Anthony Weiner.

  37. AmandaM May 24, 2017 at 12:46 pm #

    Well I sure hope Cheryl and Dienne and SKL are proud of themselves and secure in their ability to telepathically know what actually happened during that school conference, and to know the mental state of EVERYBODY who takes their own lives — because CLEARLY those people are cowards and “special” and “fragile” and probably shouldn’t be alive anyway. Thank you SO much for opining on this issue. The community here, I’m sure, greatly appreciates it.

    As someone who ISN’T a monster, I would like to state my opinion: nobody has to right to decide on the mental health of this child. Or for that matter, the mental health of anyone who takes his or her own life. We are not in their lives. We do not know what went on in that conference — and if you think the counselors were all “Oh you shouldn’t have done that, now you’ll be on the registry and don’t you feel bad about this?” — you obviously have never seen a school counselor/security officer wield their authority.

    What if the situation went down something like this. What if the school security threatened a prison term for the boy, and discussed graphic and lurid imagery about life in prison? What if they made sexual references about his cell mate? What if they described in great detail rape and sexual assault he would encounter in prison? What if the child was already struggling with anxiety relating to homosexuality? And what if, as someone else suggested, he wasn’t to blame for the recording AT ALL? Who would believe him? Dienne and Sheryl already have him tried, found guilty, and executed — on the basis of one newspaper article.

    At 16 you make dumb decisions, which is why in some states 16 year olds can’t sign legally-binding contracts. At 16 in some states you can’t decide to have an abortion, you can’t vote, you can’t buy a car, take out a loan, or enlist in the military without parent permission. Why can’t 16 year olds do these things? Because they are still children in some ways, and they sometimes make dumb decisions. And sometimes they are led to believe WRONG things by adults who have their own motivations for getting the child’s compliance. (More money for school security, perhaps?)

    Dumb decisions do not deserve a life sentence.

    Nobody is blaming the girl. Nobody on this site. Nobody is defending an unauthorized video recording. Since we don’t have all the facts, we’re doing a lot of assuming. But in the end a child is dead, the girl’s family will never be the same, and MOST of us here are examining the ways in which this entire situation went bad.

    But it’s SO good to know we have experts in mental health here who can “elucidate” us about how “cowardly” suicide is. It’s so wonderful for this community that we have telepaths who know what was going on in this kid’s mind. And so wonderful that they appoint themselves judges to tell the REST of us how cowardly suicide is.

    One more thing, Dienne, Sheryl, SK whatever — if you have lived your lives without being affected by suicide, then count yourself DARN lucky. DARN lucky. God forbid you actually have to attend the funeral of someone you know and loved, and second guess yourself and your relationship to that person. God forbid you have to explain to the family, the friends, the children, how “cowardly” that choice was. Go home tonight and thank whatever god or gods you pray to that YOU, in your high tower of superiority, don’t have to think about such things and can simply sit back and pass judgment on others.

  38. Anne May 24, 2017 at 1:10 pm #

    “The story is more about zero tolerance laws and the destruction that they cause.”

    Yes, but, it’s also relevant to that discussion to recognize that zero tolerance laws are, at times, used to impose consequences for nonconsensual acts when lack of consent is difficult to prove or the underage victim would rather not testify at a trial.

    In this case, according to the information in the news article, the young man allegedly recorded the young woman without her knowledge and showed it to friends. “On Jan. 11, records show, a female classmate told a dean that she had learned that Corey had a recording of a sexual encounter they had shortly before Christmas, and believed he had played it for friends. Police described her as “mortified,” according to the coroner’s report.” I do not want to increase his family’s pain, but an honest discussion of what happened and its relevance in discussions of zero tolerance laws cannot be had without acknowledging the full picture.

    According to the article, they did not intend to charge him but the police wanted to impress upon him the potential consequences of his actions, so he would not do the same thing to another girl. That was not wrong.

    His suicide is a terrible tragedy, but the police and school administrators should not be blamed. It should also be remembered that teenagers have committed suicide because of recordings like that.

  39. Tim May 24, 2017 at 2:09 pm #

    The important thing here is that school and police officials threatened to destroy a young man’s life and then, knowing how horrendous news like that is for a teenager, left him unattended to deal with it on his own.

  40. SKL May 24, 2017 at 2:21 pm #

    Well I don’t know the exact way they “threatened” this kid, but isn’t it good advice to tell kids not to do that sort of thing because it “could” get them on a registry? I mean I’ve told my daughters that, and they’re only 10. There is nothing new or unusual about scaring young people in order to try to change their behavior.

    And to Shelly Stow, if you really believe that being on a registry is going to do all that to a person’s life, your views are more extreme than most that we argue against on this site.

    And to AmandaM, I suppose it makes you feel better to blame me for the young man’s death, but I believe my point is valid. Raising resilient kids is our goal, isn’t it? We can’t control the outcome entirely, of course – some kids have mental issues and they are going to be at risk. I think this young man was. A guy who had “everything going for him” and made ONE mistake would normally bounce back. Or, was there more to the story, such as having been taught that his family would abandon him if he made that one mistake? Or having been told by his parents the kinds of things written above by Shelly Stow?

    I just feel this post and the reactions are contrary to our usual tone that kids are NOT so fragile that one accident / mistake / negative experience is going to cost them their life. It feeds into the hype that we have to talk very, very gently to near-adults because they may not be able to take anything harsh or scary. That we must have trigger warnings, safe spaces, etc. That is the wrong message in my opinion.

    Some people ARE mentally ill / fragile, that is a fact. Not picking on people who have mental illness, just acknowledging that they exist, and they are not created by brief encounters like the one described above. I feel sorry for the family of this troubled young man, but I don’t agree that suicide was a reasonably expected outcome of whatever the school principal / police said to him, unless they knew him to be emotionally fragile.

  41. Tim May 24, 2017 at 2:26 pm #

    @Shelly Stow, Truck driving could likely also be out of the question. Computers are used for maintenance and driving logs.

    There was a recent case in Michigan where a proponent of the registry defended restricting access to computers saying a kid can just get a job driving a truck or becoming a welder. Well, welders also use computer apps to calculate welds.

    As you say, being on the registry isn’t something that allows you to just deal with it and move on with your life. It can mean a lifetime of being a pariah and forced to the very margins of society.

  42. SKL May 24, 2017 at 2:28 pm #

    And furthermore AmandaM, I never implied the young man was “cowardly.” I said “fragile” which is an entirely different thing, and you decided to place an extreme connotation on it.

    I happen to have a daughter who has expressed suicidal thoughts. As a result, I treat her a little differently – like she is, in some ways, more fragile than average. I do not say certain things to her even in jest. I tell my sister to lock up her gun when my daughters visit. She is not a coward by any stretch, but she has mental issues. If she decided to take her life someday (God forbid), I would blame her mental issues, not the things that happen in a normal kid’s environment.

  43. SKL May 24, 2017 at 2:33 pm #

    “of those who die from suicide, more than 90 percent have a diagnosable mental disorder.”

    http://depts.washington.edu/mhreport/facts_suicide.php

  44. Anne May 24, 2017 at 2:42 pm #

    “The important thing here is that school and police officials threatened to destroy a young man’s life and then, knowing how horrendous news like that is for a teenager, left him unattended to deal with it on his own.”

    In this case, that led to tragedy, but that does not mean that the school and police should have anticipated that happening. Suicide is unpredictable. Many things could trigger suicidal impulses, and we can’t expect school officials and police to monitor teenagers with the assumption that they will become suicidal. Should they have made sure not to leave the young woman unattended after she reported the recording? What about when a teacher threatens to fail a student, or school officials expel a student? Not to mention, all the sixteen year olds who are questioned by police every day and then left unattended to deal with it on their own, often without supportive parents.

    This does not mean that the young man was “weak” or a “coward” — that would not be an accurate understanding of the causes of suicide. But I am uncomfortable with placing the blame for his death on real people who did not have a bad intent, especially when we have no idea what was said in that room or why he made the decision to commit suicide.

    And, although no one is blaming the girl, people are suggesting that this should have been treated as no big deal, which is wrong if he did record her without her knowledge and show the video to others, as she reportedly alleged.

  45. SKL May 24, 2017 at 2:43 pm #

    As Anne noted, there have been young people who committed suicide because of secretly recorded sex videos. Maybe they had mental illnesses themselves, maybe there was “more to the story,” but taping and disclosing sex videos is not something to take lightly.

    http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/rutgers-freshman-kills-classmates-hidden-camera-watch-sexual-activity-sources-article-1.438225

  46. Anne May 24, 2017 at 2:45 pm #

    “But yet we still cry for Jerry Sandusky’s victims who are all now multi-millionaires.”

    Yes, we do cry for them. Money isn’t everything.

  47. Kevin May 24, 2017 at 3:14 pm #

    To: Dienne

    You’re feeling attacked, but you brought it on yourself. Rather than accept the situation for what it is, you’re arguing vehemently to make this story match the one you’ve fabricated in your head, all of which is supposition. And, from what I can see, no one here has forgotten about the girl. One could read your thread and assume you feel Corey got what he deserved. That’s victim blaming, and it is often the response of people who feel they would have handled a situation differently. You need to realize that this tragedy was precipitated by an abuse of authority via intimidation. And when we abuse power and target the most vulnerable members of society, we commit the greatest crimes of all.

    This boy was 16, and 16 yr olds are incredibly vulnerable and fragile, boys and girls alike. I pray you never have to endure such a tragedy. And if you do, I hope the world responds more compassionately than you are now.

  48. Anne May 24, 2017 at 3:57 pm #

    ” You need to realize that this tragedy was precipitated by an abuse of authority via intimidation.”

    What facts do we have that establish this was an abuse of authority via intimidation? When someone is questioned by the police regarding the alleged commission of a crime and told the potential severe consequences of the crime, this is not automatically an abuse of authority via intimidation, even when the suspect is sixteen years old and even when the suspect tragically commits suicide after the interview with the police.

    No one is making up facts by suggesting that the young woman in the video did not know she was being recorded, it was shared by this young man, and that was traumatic for her. The linked article stated: “On Jan. 11, records show, a female classmate told a dean that she had learned that Corey had a recording of a sexual encounter they had shortly before Christmas, and believed he had played it for friends. Police described her as “mortified,” according to the coroner’s report.”

    Why can’t we be compassionate toward everyone involved, including the police officers and school officials who never imagined that this would result in a suicide?

    “And when we abuse power and target the most vulnerable members of society, we commit the greatest crimes of all. ”

    Couldn’t that description apply to a girl being recorded without her knowledge in her most vulnerable moment and that recording being shared with her high school classmates?

  49. Colleen May 24, 2017 at 5:22 pm #

    There is no other word except heartbreaking. Adults who love, live with and work with teens must help them see the other side of their terrible moments and pchoices. Every adult alive has done something stupid, hurtful, regretful and/or self-destructive and come through to learn from it and, hopefully, be and do better. This boy deserved better guidance than he got. My deepest sympathies to his family and those who miss him.

  50. Jennifer C May 24, 2017 at 5:27 pm #

    @Anne

    “What facts do we have that establish this was an abuse of authority via intimidation?”

    Well, it doesn’t look like they attempted to contact his parents before they interrogated him, which is something they are supposed to do when questioning a minor in Illinois. And I’d be willing to bet that they didn’t inform him of his rights, including the right to remain silent. And whose bright idea was it to leave him alone and unsupervised? Was the idea to scare the crap out of him and leave him to stew alone so they could break him down? Because that sounds pretty intimidating.

    “Couldn’t that description apply to a girl being recorded without her knowledge in her most vulnerable moment and that recording being shared with her high school classmates?”

    Do we actually know that it was without her knowledge? Or is that speculation? Quite a few people here seem to have this kid pegged as some kind of predator without any sort of evidence whatsoever.

  51. Anne May 24, 2017 at 5:40 pm #

    “Do we actually know that it was without her knowledge? Or is that speculation? Quite a few people here seem to have this kid pegged as some kind of predator without any sort of evidence whatsoever.”

    It’s based on the statement in the article that records show the girl reported that she learned he had a recording and believed he was showing it to friends. The allegation that she learned about the recording suggests that she did not know about it when it was being made. Not necessarily a predator, just someone who allegedly made some very poor choices and did something very hurtful to someone else. Certainly not deserving of death, but perhaps deserving of a stern talking to and warning of the potential consequences. Not a reason for internet strangers to condemn him, but a relevant piece of information when evaluating the actions of the police and school officials.

  52. Jennifer C May 24, 2017 at 5:44 pm #

    @Anne–this was much more than a ‘stern talking to’–the way things look now I would say that this kid’s rights were probably violated, and the police and school officials who failed to follow policy should be disciplined. This was a 16 year-old kid, not some hardened criminal.

  53. SKL May 24, 2017 at 6:17 pm #

    I read the article. It says they told the mom & son (on speaker phone) that they intended to keep it out of court and do some minor stuff that would not involve a police record. Yes, they mentioned he “could” get on the registry. By law that may be true.

    The article also says the parents have been scaring him about the sex registry for years, and how making bad sexual choices could ruin his life. So maybe that was a bigger reason why he thought he couldn’t bounce back from this. Maybe he was upset his girlfriend had found out about his terrible act against her and turned him in – perhaps that meant a breakup that was hard for him to take. Or maybe there were all sorts of other things going on to make him feel hopeless.

    Maybe the cops should have waited for the mom before asking Corey any questions. But obviously they had to tell him why he was called out of lunch and why his mom was called. Is there a law that says you can’t tell a 16yo in Illinois “we heard you did xyz, which is a crime, and which could get you consequence abc”?

    Not sure how I feel about the fact that the parents are suing for money.

    I think the suggestion that you can’t leave a 16yo alone in a room when he’s worrying about something is utterly ridiculous. When is a 16yo NOT worrying about something?

  54. James Pollock May 24, 2017 at 6:30 pm #

    “the way things look now I would say that this kid’s rights were probably violated, and the police and school officials who failed to follow policy should be disciplined.”

    My best guess is that the police and school officials had no intention of actually arresting him, and that a prosecutor would not have actually pursued a child pornography charge. However, they DID want to convince young Corey to stop sharing the recording, destroy any copies of the recording he might have, and not make any more featuring underage participants.
    Now, BECAUSE they never actually intended to charge him, they didn’t need to worry, as they normally would, that violating his rights would make his confession inadmissible in court. On the other hand, since they DO know about the offense, they need to be sure letting him go without charges won’t turn around and bite them in the posterior. If they don’t deal with the situation to the satisfaction of the girl (and her family), there could be repercussions (for them, I mean)

    I think I can put myself in the shoes of every participant in this story… I get her position, I get the school’s, the police’s, and his parents’. I even think I understand where he was coming from, though I think he acted inappropriately and stupidly. (I think the phrase “pics or it didn’t happen, bro” is relevant.) I don’t think anyone acted maliciously.

  55. Jennifer C May 24, 2017 at 6:32 pm #

    @SKL According to the article above, they attempted to contact his parents after they questioned him–not before. And according to Illinois state policy, they are supposed to contact them before the questioning–those are the rules. I can’t find out for sure whether he was Mirandized or not, but I think he probably should have been. And, no I was not suggesting that there should have been an officer directly inside the room–but parked outside of the door probably would have been a good idea, don’t you think?

  56. theresa May 24, 2017 at 6:32 pm #

    Skl it be nice if this settle without money but 90% of the time that the only language people will speak.

  57. Jennifer C May 24, 2017 at 6:33 pm #

    @James Pollock–very good points,yes.

  58. sigh May 24, 2017 at 6:49 pm #

    It’s hard to know what is an appropriate amount of anxiety in these cases.

    My son was reported; he and his buddies were using his phone to coerce a girl into sending a nude photo of herself.

    The girl complained to her parents, the parents complained to the school, and my son ended up in the VP’s office, a model student with no “priors,” being told he was a criminal under the laws of the province, and that he was fortunate that the girl’s parents had opted not to involve police.

    On the one hand, I applaud the parents for not involving the police, when it’s true, they had a criminal complaint against my son. And I am glad he was alerted that his actions are not acceptable.

    On the other hand, I hate the way my son was scared so badly as a 15-year-old kid whose hormones and impulsivity (pretty common age-appropriate developmental characteristics), when acted out in similar ways that I saw boys acting out in the hallways of my own high school in the 1980s (except now in digital format), it’s a foregone conclusion that this is against the law, instead of simply being ungentlemanly and rude.

    Frankly, I was horrified as a young woman by the kinds of comments, propositions, and hands-on nastiness boys doled out. I’m grateful there’s some kind of accountability for boys (and girls) whose rudeness and inconsiderate behaviour warrant being called out and discussed. But criminal charges? Is this really making any of us more considerate, or just more fearful? Is ruining someone’s future because they were rude as a teenager a proportionate response?

    It was one thing to shrug one’s shoulders and say, “Boys will be boys,” even in cases of rape and sexual assault. That was, and still is, horrifying.

    But it’s not a remedy to make young people “accountable” to the point of punishment that is destroying instead of reforming them.

  59. Sherry Aldridge May 24, 2017 at 6:51 pm #

    So sad. Those in authority need special training when dealing with these young adults!

  60. Jennifer C May 24, 2017 at 7:57 pm #

    There have been cases where a minor has been charged with child porn for possessing or sharing pictures–of themselves. I don’t know how those cases turned out, but honestly that makes no sense to me.

  61. michaelG May 24, 2017 at 11:00 pm #

    The consequences of being put on the registry is a life sentence, it is everything shelly stow said and more, this child who did something childish was threatened with a lifetime of hardship and shame, he was not a Coward he was a scared kid like many juveniles and young men that fall victim to the horror of the registry..

  62. sexhysteria May 25, 2017 at 1:05 am #

    I’m afraid that some government employees prefer “working” on sex cases that involve minors, and since such cases are relatively rare the police and prosecutors jump at any chance to look at the pictures, interview the minors, and otherwise “investigate.”

    In a true police state the opposite strategy is used: the government allows a suspect to victimize as many people as possible until enough solid evidence is accumulated to guarantee a conviction. In all cases, a government’s first priority is to protect itself.

  63. Workshop May 25, 2017 at 6:10 am #

    One shouldn’t give the keys to the car to a newly-turned 16 year old without practice, training, and licensing. One shouldn’t drop a couple hundred thousand dollars into the lap of a young adult and expect good decisions to be made without some evidence that the young person won’t blow it on stupid stuff.

    Yet we think we give hormonal teenagers all the technological trappings of an adult and expect them to use them wisely.

    Reason #3490 why my children will not be given smart-phones.
    Reason #3 why my children will be taught “when confronted by the police or their stand-ins, say nothing at all except ‘I want my lawyer.’ Repeatedly, ad nauseum.”
    Reason #15 why some people deserve a good punch to the face. Not that I advocate violence. But the school administrator needs something to remind him of his poor decision-making skills. The police officer, who should really know better, gets to stand in line behind him.

    We are socialized to accept bullies when they appear as a bureaucrat/administrator, but in other areas of life we are told bullying is wrong. Stand up to bullies, no matter who they are. Teach your children to stand up to bullies. Yes, they might get hurt once, but they’ll come away with a better sense of self-esteem. Real self-esteem, the type gained from actions and behavior, not from just showing up and getting a participation trophy.

  64. BL May 25, 2017 at 6:51 am #

    @Workshop
    ““when confronted by the police or their stand-ins …”

    Which brings up another point.

    Why are school officials stand-ins for the police? Why is the school involved at all? What does this have to do with school? Why is the girl’s reaction to go to the school to report this? (Or did her parents advise her to do that?)

  65. Jen May 25, 2017 at 7:22 am #

    the article said that the kids had decided to have sex for the first time. They possibly both agreed to record — because that’s what kids do these days — record everything. Neither one of the had to be bragging to friends and the word got out. It’s possible and just as likely that he or the girl felt ashamed/embarrassed or any of a number of other feelings afterwards (not helped by our attitudes on sex in this country) and maybe she told someone because she didn’t want to get in trouble or be seen in a bad light. When kids are trying to get out of trouble — they rarely think beyond immediate relief from the situation — unfortunately, that is also what caused Corey to take his life — the cops and administration went after him with the intent of punishing him — not on teaching him. Somehow we need to stop criminalizing normal childhood behavior. I am overwhelmingly sad for this family and the children at this school — and scared to death for my middle-schoolers who are just learning about the world and who they are and do less than prudent things daily as they learn.

  66. SKL May 25, 2017 at 8:13 am #

    I really don’t appreciate the implication that it’s no big deal for a girl to have her first secret sexual experience broadcast around to the boys in high school. That is actually a huge big deal for the girl. It’s not just an oopsie childish mistake that we must pretend never happened, lest the boy feel anxiety over his wrong.

    The fact that the video was dark was happenstance; the boy would have showed it to his friends if it wasn’t dark. This is not OK behavior.

    I do not agree with it going on the sex registry forever, no. Nor did the authorities in this case. However, telling the boy the FACT that that sort of behavior “could” get one on the registry is appropriate. I would have done the same. His parents have apparently done the same before this incident happened.

    Another thing. There’s a lot of focus on how a teen’s bad choices can ruin the teen’s life. Are we doing enough to make sure teens understand how their choices affect the other intimate person’s life? This should never have happened, not because of the sex crime registry, but because it’s just a horrible thing to do to a person, especially a person who put that much trust in you. Has anyone taken the time to make sure that registers in young people’s minds?

    What do we need to do differently to get young people to stop doing these kinds of stupid, mean things?

  67. Anne May 25, 2017 at 8:36 am #

    ” Somehow we need to stop criminalizing normal childhood behavior.”

    According to the article, the girl said that she LEARNED about the recording and believed that it was being shown to other boys. This implies that she did not know she was being recorded and did not consent to the recording being shared. If this is normal childhood behavior, it is very cruel behavior that should not be tolerated.

    I hate saying that something this young man allegedly did is cruel because his death was tragic and I feel for his grieving parents. But if people are going to repeatedly say that it’s no big deal, I’m going to disagree.

    “I’m afraid that some government employees prefer “working” on sex cases that involve minors, and since such cases are relatively rare the police and prosecutors jump at any chance to look at the pictures, interview the minors, and otherwise “investigate.””

    Or maybe, possibly, they want to protect minors from mistreatment. (Unfortunately, such cases are not as a rare as we’d like. It’s stranger assaults and kidnappings that are extremely rare.) Should they have simply patted the girl on the head and said that if she’s going to engage in intimate relations, she’ll have to just accept being recorded and having her intimate moments played for her classmates?

  68. SteveS May 25, 2017 at 8:40 am #

    I don’t know what else could be done. Setting aside the issue of the SOR, the justice systems in many states have programs for juveniles and young adults that give them a break and effectively seal their criminal records if they successfully complete the terms of their probation. I suppose a bigger problem is the compulsion that people have to record or photograph inappropriate events and share them. I see plenty of people posting all sorts of stupid things online. Granted, these aren’t typically of them having sex, but are still things that can get them disciplined by their employer or something similar.

  69. Beth May 25, 2017 at 8:48 am #

    I think that to threaten a kid with the registry before he has been charged with anything, much less tried and convicted, is unconscionable.

  70. BL May 25, 2017 at 8:57 am #

    “I suppose a bigger problem is the compulsion that people have to record or photograph inappropriate events and share them. I see plenty of people posting all sorts of stupid things online.”

    What?! Don’t you understand? It’s SOCIAL media! If you don’t post everything in your life, you’re anti-social!

    And you probably have something to hide!

  71. SKL May 25, 2017 at 9:38 am #

    http://www.judiciaryreport.com/15_year_old_girl_commits_suicide_over_leaked_nude_video.htm

    The people on the other side of the situation would like to see MORE done to stop boys from doing this.

    (And girls. Girls do this too, though I’m not sure if it’s as common.)

  72. SKL May 25, 2017 at 9:50 am #

    Beth: “I think that to threaten a kid with the registry before he has been charged with anything, much less tried and convicted, is unconscionable.”

    I don’t understand this. Don’t all parents tell their kids they could go to jail etc. etc. if they do certain things? I thought all responsible parents were now telling their teens about the sex offender registry. How could you not warn your kid about something so important?

    I think it is absolutely normal practice and proper to tell a kid in this situation that there may be serious consequences for his crime. Why when I was a teen, the school attendance officer came to our house to tell us that we would all end up unemployed and homeless if we didn’t stop coming to school tardy or skipping classes. If I’d committed suicide that day, would it be on the attendance officer?

    Moreover, it would be unconscionable NOT TO tell them that admitting to a crime WILL have consequences. You think it would be more fair to get the person to admit a crime and THEN tell him what the potential consequences are?

    Beware of the mindset that says “even one life lost is too many,” to justify policies that are not appropriate for the vast majority of children.

  73. lollipoplover May 25, 2017 at 10:10 am #

    I don’t even want to read through the comments, I started but could see when there was a fork in the road, some people fork right to consequences and prison where others may see alternative forks of action.

    I think that is what basically this comes to- we can learn from this encounter there are other possibilities.
    I read a statistic the other day for the state of California that to pay for a year in prison for an inmate was around $70,000 and to pay for a year at Stanford, the top college in the Country, is around $68,000. That’s absolutely crazy.

    I also have a son who is 16. He just got his permit and this description of Corey could be my son. Again, won’t read through the comments because empathy these days seems to be in such short supply. It takes just as much energy and resources to punish someone as it does to rehabilitate them. Empathy helps…

  74. SKL May 25, 2017 at 10:33 am #

    lollipoplover, I encourage you to read the linked article though. You will see that the authorities here had NO intention of giving this kid any legal consequence that would affect his long-term prospects. They just wanted him to understand that his act was a crime.

  75. Workshop May 25, 2017 at 10:50 am #

    SKL, the authorities certainly got their point across, didn’t they?

  76. SKL May 25, 2017 at 10:50 am #

    Another thing – school and law enforcement officials are under frequent attack (legal and otherwise) for NOT taking these sorts of incidents seriously enough. In this case, it sounds like the authorities really intended to find a reasonable balance – one that talks to the seriousness of the situation, yet does not give lifelong punishment for an immature stupid act. Yet they are being sued and blamed and excoriated for not realizing this particular teen was suicidal.

    What will a lawsuit accomplish? What is really the point? You want 16/17yos to be treated like adults? Or like babies?

    I think the point Lenore wants to make is that there shouldn’t be SOR laws that have long-term effects on minors. OK I can agree with that. But I don’t agree with suing officials for stating what the law is.

  77. SKL May 25, 2017 at 10:53 am #

    Workshop, do you think that the law should make it a crime to be the last person that said something unpleasant to a person who committed suicide?

    Why are you so sure the parents didn’t scare this kid more than the school / police did?

    The boy left no suicide note that I know of. Why are you so sure the SOR was even this issue in his mind at the time he jumped? It’s very likely he was more upset about his girlfriend, parents, and other community members learning what he had done.

  78. SKL May 25, 2017 at 10:59 am #

    If he heard them mention the SOR, then he also heard them say the were going to try for a solution that keeps him out of court / criminal records and just gives him a minor consequence.

  79. SKL May 25, 2017 at 11:02 am #

    Here’s a serious question. Suppose the girl had been 18. Would it have been perfectly legal for the boy (whether over or under age 18 himself) to secretly tape them having intercourse, and then show other people the video without her consent?

    If that is legal, should it be?

  80. Workshop May 25, 2017 at 11:02 am #

    SKL, the professional association of psychiatrists (American Psychiatric Association) forbids its members from offering diagnoses without actually interviewing the patient.

    Therefore, based on the evidence, it appears that after the school administrator and police officer bullied this boy, he felt his life was at an end and decided to throw himself off a building. If you have other evidence, present it. But don’t invent evidence and then determine the psychological state of the victim to suit the movie you’ve made up in your head.

    This situation was entirely preventable. There is no reason why it should have ended the way it did. There were lots of bad decisions made, but bullying the boy led to his death.

  81. SKL May 25, 2017 at 11:09 am #

    Well we’re never going to agree on this.

    A teen who is almost 17yo, who considers himself old enough to have sex and apply to colleges, should be assumed old enough to hear that crimes have legal consequences, unless otherwise proven.

    I will not agree that it’s “bullying” to inform a teen of potential legal consequences, even if this is said in a stern voice etc. I would absolutely expect that to happen to my kid if she was caught doing something similar at school.

    You are entitled to your opinion.

  82. James Pollock May 25, 2017 at 11:54 am #

    “Here’s a serious question. Suppose the girl had been 18. Would it have been perfectly legal for the boy (whether over or under age 18 himself) to secretly tape them having intercourse, and then show other people the video without her consent?”

    Your mileage may vary. If she’s over 18 but he isn’t, it’s still child pornography, even when he makes it.

    Many states make it a crime to record someone without their knowledge, regardless of what they are saying. (It’s generally called “wiretapping”, although the crime doesn’t actually require any wires to be tapped.) Some states require that one party in a conversation consent to a recording being made, and some states (called “two-party consent” states) require that everyone being recorded consent. This is why when you call a customer-service line, you’ll get a message that your call may be recorded. If you hear that message, your call WILL be recorded, it’s just that they may not keep the recording.) Illinois used to be a two-party consent state, but the Illinois Supreme Court invalidated that law in a 2014 case. I’m not sure what happened since then.

    Finally, many states have invasion-of-privacy laws, either criminal or civil or both. I don’t know what Illinois has and don’t feel like researching it at the moment. But no, many states do not make publishing a sex tape a crime..

  83. Mark May 25, 2017 at 4:05 pm #

    @Dienne You sound like a typical feminazi, primed to believe the worst about men and boys alike, and always making the girl out to be wholly innocent of all agency. This bigotry of low expectations on the left is infuriating and poisonous.

    There have been no accusations of rape or other wrongdoing, yet you are more than happy to read it into the situation.

    Kids are totally inundated with porn and technology both today, and yet you immediately pass judgement on the boy as the mastermind and aggressor in this case without ANY evidence of this fact, and worse, he’s dead so he can’t defend himself. F#ck you.

  84. Dienne May 25, 2017 at 4:21 pm #

    “There have been no accusations of rape or other wrongdoing….”

    Um, yeah, there were. Why do you think he was called to the office in the first place? Go back and read the story. At the very least, he was apparently bragging about (and probably trying to show) his friends his video of his sexual exploits. That alone is reprehensible. And while it’s not guaranteed, the evidence seems to indicate that the girl was unaware of the recording*, in which case it is indeed a felony in the State of Illinois.

    I’m just really baffled by all this support for this poor boy while there’s hardly a drop of concern for the girl he was trying to ruin. In fact, did ruin. Do you think the kids at her school don’t know who she is? Do you think she’s not ostracized and demonized now? Not only is she a “slut”, she’s probably being blamed for his death (and probably blaming herself to boot).

    * I’ve already indicated above that it’s possible she did know and was an active participant in the recording. If so, then she’s a witch. But the circumstances seem to show that she wasn’t aware. First, the fact that the recording is so dark. As I mentioned above, if she were a willing participant, she would have as much motivation as he would to make sure the video turned out well. The fact that it’s so dark indicates that he hid the phone to secretly record the sex. Second, the fact that she apparently went to administration when she heard that he was talking about it with his friends. Unless she just vindictively changed her mind for spite, it seems that she genuinely didn’t know. At best, he’s a cad. At worst, a felon. Either way, his death is tragic (as is the death of anyone so young), but he was no innocent angel, and he chose his own death.

  85. Dienne May 25, 2017 at 4:42 pm #

    Incidentally, you can’t talk about “agency” if the girl didn’t know about the recording. Agency only applies when you know what’s going on and have the ability to do something about it. Apparently, as soon as she found out what was going on, she exercised her agency – she went and told school authorities. And, while most of you won’t admit it, many of you here think she was wrong for that because that’s what led directly to school authorities and the police questioning the boy. So apparently “agency” is good so long as it’s used to do what you want her to do, but not when it’s used to stand up for herself.

    As for “feminazi”, that tells me about all I need to know about you. If by “feminazi” you mean someone who will stand up for the rights of girls not to be exploited by boys they trust, then I guess I’ll wear the label with pride, thanks.

    As for your final insult (which would get you banned on many sites, BTW), apparently f***ing is what a woman deserves when she talks back to a man, amiright?

  86. James Pollock May 25, 2017 at 5:29 pm #

    “Um, yeah, there were.”
    By you. All the news accounts, which are drawn from police reports, refer to it as “consensual” sex. What does that word mean to you? Here’s the line in the article above: “They questioned him about what was alleged to be an image on his phone of a consensual sexual encounter with a female classmate”. The police said they weren’t going to charge him with a crime. From this you determined there was likely a rape?

    ” the evidence seems to indicate that the girl was unaware of the recording”
    No, it doesn’t. Two people know how that recording came to be made… one of them isn’t talking because he’s dead, and the other one just isn’t talking.

    “I’m just really baffled by all this support for this poor boy while there’s hardly a drop of concern for the girl he was trying to ruin. In fact, did ruin.[…] Not only is she a ‘slut’”
    What? Are you imagining that you’re taking her side?

    Here’s the deal. He is NOT a child pornographer, in my opinion, for the simple reason that 16-year-olds are not “children” and the notion that no 16-year-old can possibly give meaningful consent to sexual activity is ludicrous. He did either make a recording without permission, or share a recording without permission, both of which are dick moves which are stupid, short-sighted, and counterproductive (you may impress the boys by playing them your recording, but you aren’t impressing the girls, and, ultimately, their opinion matters W-A-Y more)
    I’m not sure a single occurrence warrants criminal proceedings, much less a ten-year stretch on the sex-offender registry.

    Finally, let’s note that HE was under 17, which is the age of consent in Illinois, so she is actually a sex criminal, the little minx (sarcasm, in case you missed it.)

  87. Dienne May 25, 2017 at 5:35 pm #

    Sigh. Marc was trying to say there were no allegations of wrongdoing. That’s baloney on its face. Why would he have been called to the office if there was no wrongdoing? Not only was there wrongdoing, but the police and the school have explicitly said that they did what they did because they wanted to impress upon the boy the seriousness of what he did.

    And, yes, the sex itself may have been consensual. But as I said before, if he recorded it without her knowledge, then the whole thing is non-consensual because what she thought she was consenting to was not what was happening. She thought she was consenting to an intimate encounter with a boy she cared about, trusted and, possibly, loved and whom she thought returned those feelings. What the situation actually turned out to be was an amateur porn video. Those are two very different acts requiring specific consent for each. And, for good measure, I’ll repeat it again: recording a sexual act without the consent of all parties involved is a felony in Illinois.

  88. Dienne May 25, 2017 at 5:37 pm #

    “Here’s the deal. He is NOT a child pornographer, in my opinion, for the simple reason that 16-year-olds are not “children” and the notion that no 16-year-old can possibly give meaningful consent to sexual activity is ludicrous.”

    Well, opinions are like you-know-whats – everyone has one. But the fact remains (as you are fond of pointing out to others in other threads), the only opinion that matters is the law of the State of Illinois, which disagrees with you. Sorry about that. Age of consent in Illinois is 17.

  89. Dienne May 25, 2017 at 5:38 pm #

    “Two people know how that recording came to be made….”

    Maybe. Maybe only one does. Or did.

  90. Jennifer C May 25, 2017 at 5:38 pm #

    @Dienne –I really don’t blame the girl at all–not even if she was a willing participant in the tape. It’s possible she may have willingly made it, not expecting him to share it with anyone. They’re both kids, after all–they don’t always have the best judgment. But I still have serious questions about the procedures the police followed and whether more could have been to prevent him from leaving the school and doing what he did.

    Another thing that really bugs me is the fact that even if they had both consented to the tape they could have both had been charged with making child porn–even if it was of themselves. As I said in an earlier post, girls have been charged for sending nude selfies–which I think is completely insane.

  91. SKL May 25, 2017 at 5:49 pm #

    I understand that schools are not allowed to prevent students from leaving the campus. Since this young man was not in official custody (as far as I know), he was free to leave, and it is nobody’s responsibility to prevent him from doing so.

  92. SKL May 25, 2017 at 5:57 pm #

    As for whether this is child porn – I think we have to be careful there. Many cases of child porn involve minors creating and providing the material to adults. So … when does it become child porn? Only when it is viewed by an adult? What about the fact that some of the students in high school ARE adults? Laws have to have clear definitions.

    But for argument’s sake, let’s say it’s just plain porn – it’s still wrong to secretly make it and share it with others without the consent of everyone in the video. Whether it’s a crime or not depends on the state’s law.

  93. Jennifer C May 25, 2017 at 6:10 pm #

    *I understand that schools are not allowed to prevent students from leaving the campus.*

    Really? Are you sure? I graduated in ’91 and we were not supposed to leave the campus during school hours–you could be suspended if you got caught. At one point at my school they had allowed Seniors to leave the campus for lunch, but they changed that practice because too many were abusing the privilege and coming back late or not at all.

    *Since this young man was not in official custody (as far as I know), he was free to leave, and it is nobody’s responsibility to prevent him from doing so.*

    You had a police officer and the dean there and they had called the mother in, presumably to speak to both her and her son. Even if he wasn’t officially arrested it sounds pretty damn custodial to me–somehow I don’t think they intended for him to leave before they were done. It wouldn’t have been too difficult to post an officer or security guard outside the door until his mother arrived.

  94. Donna May 25, 2017 at 6:20 pm #

    “Well, for starters, if he were on the registry, he and his parents could tear up those college applications; even if a school would take him, and many won’t, he would be the sex offender on campus and shunned and protested by all.”

    While that is all true, it is HIGHLY UNLIKELY to be why he killed himself. Unless he has been involved in the legal system for a sex offense prior and the sex offender registry has been fully explained to him, he would have no idea as to the ramifications of being on the sex offender registry. Most adults don’t, let alone 16 year olds.

  95. SKL May 25, 2017 at 6:24 pm #

    Jennifer, yes they can give you consequences at school after the fact, but they can’t imprison you.

    Even juvenile detention centers are not secure. Kids run away from them all the time.

  96. Donna May 25, 2017 at 6:41 pm #

    This is a tragic story and I will never defend police interrogation tactics, but juveniles are questioned by police hundreds of times a day every day for crimes ranging from misdemeanors to murder and they don’t kill themselves. Clearly something else was going on here.

    I have had a small handful of clients kill themselves and none were because of police bullying.

  97. Jennifer C May 25, 2017 at 6:46 pm #

    @skl–You are free to prove me wrong, but I don’t see any laws or court rulings stating that schools are not allowed to prevent students from leaving during the school day. These days they don’t even allow people to enter the school without checking in at the main office first. And even back in my day a student was considered to be under school control until they got home. I even had a friend who got suspended for getting into a fight two blocks away from the school.

  98. Donna May 25, 2017 at 7:00 pm #

    “I understand that schools are not allowed to prevent students from leaving the campus. Since this young man was not in official custody (as far as I know), he was free to leave, and it is nobody’s responsibility to prevent him from doing so.”

    Well, if you mean that they are not allowed to physically hold you down or restrain you so that you can’t leave campus, you would be correct. However, they are certainly allowed to forbid you from leaving unless authorized and they do bear some responsibility for making sure that that doesn’t happen. That said, that responsibility does not extend to somehow being responsible for a teenager running away and jumping off a building.

  99. Donna May 25, 2017 at 7:07 pm #

    “Age of consent in Illinois is 17.”

    Age of consent has nothing to do with child pornography laws. Age of consent is the age at which you can legally consent to sex. Regardless of the age of consent, the subject of pornography must be 18. So there are generally some years in every state where it is legal engage in sex, but illegal to record it.

  100. Jennifer C May 25, 2017 at 7:10 pm #

    @Donna–I have no doubt there were multiple things that were going on in this young man’s life. However, this may have been the proverbial straw that broke the camel’s back. And teens often lack the ability and experience to put certain things into perspective the way that adults can. I can think back to things that seemed absolutely crucial when I was a teen that seem very silly now.

  101. Donna May 25, 2017 at 7:16 pm #

    “She thought she was consenting to an intimate encounter with a boy she cared about, trusted and, possibly, loved and whom she thought returned those feelings.”

    Sexist much? It is certainly possible that the above is true. It is also possible that this was completely casual sex to her. Or maybe she loved him, but was well aware that it was casual for him. Maybe he loved her and she just thought it was a casual thing. There are many different possibilities here.

    Obviously none of this has anything whatsoever to do with the completely separate consideration as to whether the video was made with the consent of both parties. This answer we will never know unless the female involved speaks out, which I doubt will ever happen.

  102. Donna May 25, 2017 at 7:29 pm #

    @Jennifer C – I have no doubt that this was the straw that broke the camel’s back. However, are police supposed to stop investigating potential crimes because someone completely unbeknownst to them someone may be so psychologically close to the edge that questioning them will result in them killing themselves? I once had a client in jail for speeding who killed himself. Should we stop enforcing speeding laws and just let everyone drive however they want.

  103. James Pollock May 25, 2017 at 8:15 pm #

    ” Why would he have been called to the office if there was no wrongdoing?”
    Well, as it turns out, the wrongdoing that was alleged was not true. He did not have images on his phone, as was claimed.

    ” the sex itself may have been consensual. But as I said before, if he recorded it without her knowledge, then the whole thing is non-consensual”
    That’s not how it works.

    “I’ll repeat it again: recording a sexual act without the consent of all parties involved is a felony in Illinois.”
    Repeat it as many times as you like. (Here in the real world, sometimes it’s a felony, and sometimes it’s a misdemeanor, and sometimes it’s neither.)

    “the only opinion that matters is the law of the State of Illinois, which disagrees with you.”

    Actually, if you look uptread (start with my first comment) it does not.
    (Knowing what the law is and agreeing that it is correct in the abstract or correctly applied are two VASTLY different things.

    “Age of consent in Illinois is 17.”
    Duh. I said this. (This makes her a sex criminal, because he was underage). But age of consent and age definitions of child pornography laws are unrelated to each other. It’s entirely possible for it to be illegal for two people to lawfully have sex with each other, yet be charged with a felony for recording it for their own use. Not only that, but the federal child pornography statute takes a VERY broad view of what is child pornography…

    “Maybe. Maybe only one does. Or did.”
    Will you PLEASE stop insulting this poor girl? Now you have her possibly too stupid to figure out how a recording of her exists?

    “As for whether this is child porn – I think we have to be careful there.”
    No… there’s not much wiggle room. It’s child porn, even with no clear images to go with the audio.

    “when does it become child porn?”
    When it’s created using using underage persons, and meets the definition of “pornography”. Even if nobody ever views it. Creation and distribution of child pornography are different crimes, though they often come together.

    ” it’s still wrong to secretly make it and share it with others without the consent of everyone in the video.”
    Just sharing it without permission… even if HE had nothing to do with making it… is wrong.

    “Even juvenile detention centers are not secure. Kids run away from them all the time.”

    By that definition, prisons are not secure, either.

    “Obviously none of this has anything whatsoever to do with the completely separate consideration as to whether the video was made with the consent of both parties. This answer we will never know unless the female involved speaks out, which I doubt will ever happen.”

    Even if she does speak, she may have reason to obfuscate or deceive.

    “are police supposed to stop investigating potential crimes because […]”
    “Stop investigating” isn’t the only option available. Police work within a rather substantial body of restraints on what they may do, and in this case, did not say within the requirements placed on them ( I think I know why this was, and even agree with the choice, absent 20/20 hindsight.) It looks to me like the intent of the police in this case was, despite the fact that there was a violation of the law, to let him off with a warning. A very, very severe and strongly-worded warning. To put the coldest, heartless, most soulless face on it, the police’s intent was to make sure young Corey didn’t share this video with anybody else. They achieved this goal.

  104. Donna May 25, 2017 at 8:26 pm #

    If you read the article, it does appear that the sex act was consensual, but the recording was not. It was the female in the video who reported it to the school resource officer. I suppose she could have consented to the recording, but objected to him showing to others. Either way, something was going on that she did not consent to to the extent of reporting it to the police.

    We have no idea what happened with the police. Nobody who was actually in the room has described their interaction. The parents just assume that it was confrontational. The mother also states that they talked to the boy all the time about possible legal ramifications of sex, including just the weekend before. It is very possible that the police did nothing untoward and it was the parents lectures that scared the boy into killing himself. Police officers can be assholes. Police officers can also be very nice and respectful. All depends on which one you get. I’ve seen no evidence that these police officers were the former rather than the latter.

  105. Donna May 25, 2017 at 8:34 pm #

    “Police work within a rather substantial body of restraints on what they may do, and in this case, did not say within the requirements placed on them”

    Were you in the room to know this? There is absolutely no information given as to what was said in the room in the attached article. The boy cannot speak and the Dean and resource officer have not. In fact, all we know is that they were in the office together for 18 minutes and the parents believe, possibly completely baseless, that the police scared him.

    We also know that the school did not call the parents for until after that 18 minutes. That would be objectionable IF they interrogated him for that time. If they did not interrogate him, then there is nothing wrong with that either.

    I am certainly open to the idea that police officers leave the bounds of their restraints, but it is not the case 100% of the time and I have read nothing in this article that indicates with certainty that they did here.

  106. SKL May 25, 2017 at 8:40 pm #

    Anyway I think all those rules about when you can question and did you Mirandize etc. are only relevant to admissibility. If they had decided not to charge him, they may not have done or documented all that. Or maybe they did do it. I don’t think it’s legally relevant either way in this case.

  107. Jennifer C May 25, 2017 at 8:52 pm #

    @skl A recent Supreme Court Decision says that you must Mirandize a minor in any situation that can be construed as custodial. And in the case that preceded that ruling, a youngster at school was called into a room to be questioned by a police officer and a school official and he confessed to a crime. Because he was not Mirandized, his confession was thrown out, as it should have been. Illinois state law also states that you must attempt to contact the parents before questioning a minor. Before, not after. The article above clearly states that it was after.

  108. Jennifer C May 25, 2017 at 9:05 pm #

    Additionally, they didn’t know that the picture/video was too dark to be viewed, so I doubt they decided that they weren’t going to charge him prior to questioning him.

  109. Dienne May 25, 2017 at 9:08 pm #

    “Well, as it turns out, the wrongdoing that was alleged was not true. He did not have images on his phone, as was claimed.”

    Um, that’s splitting a mighty fine hair. There were images, but they were too dark to make out. And there was audio. It is very clear that he recorded the sex act (which, for the millionth time, is a felony if she did not consent).

  110. Dienne May 25, 2017 at 9:11 pm #

    “Now you have her possibly too stupid to figure out how a recording of her exists?”

    So you’re saying that someone who doesn’t know that someone secretly recorded them is stupid? That’s your word, not mine. I would say deceived, not stupid. It’s on him, not her.

  111. Donna May 25, 2017 at 9:30 pm #

    “A recent Supreme Court Decision says that you must Mirandize a minor in any situation that can be construed as custodial.”

    And Miranda said that you must Mirandize ANYONE in any situation that is custodial. What constitutes “custody” is something that criminal lawyers spend hours researching and arguing.

    But as SKL said, Miranda only addresses the admissibility of evidence. Since no charges arose, Miranda is really completely irrelevant.

    And it is very possible that the cop NEVER intended to charge him. They knew from the beginning that it was nothing more than a video of peers having consensual sex. They could think ruining a kid’s life over something like this is as stupid as many of us do and just wanted to talk to him about it.

  112. James Pollock May 25, 2017 at 10:00 pm #

    “Were you in the room to know this?”
    Nope. Don’t have to be. They’re supposed to call the parents before interviewing the minor. They did not do this. They do not claim that they DID do this.

    “There is absolutely no information given as to what was said in the room in the attached article”
    Nor need there be.

    If the police admit they started interviewing your client before you arrive, do you need to know exactly what questions they asked to know if his rights were violated?

    The news report isn’t just based on what the parents told the reporter.
    “The police reports were heavily redacted and withheld all information about the confrontation at the high school less than two hours before Corey killed himself. The Tribune, though, obtained from other sources a less redacted copy of the police reports, including the report written by the officer who questioned the teen.”

    ” that’s splitting a mighty fine hair. There were images, but they were too dark to make out.”
    Images that are too dark to make out are not illegal to possess or distribute.

    “for the millionth time, is a felony if she did not consent”
    For the millionth time, it is either a felony, a misdemeanor, or not a crime at all to record someone having sex, without their consent, in Illinois. It will not magically become always a felony no matter how many times you repeat your claim.

    “So you’re saying that someone who doesn’t know that someone secretly recorded them is stupid?”

    No, that’s not what I (or anyone else) is stupid.

    However, given facts that A) a recording exists, B) of her, and C) he had a copy of it, and D) she is aware of A, B, and C (all of these are established facts)

    Let’s establish some theories:
    Theory 1: She knew about, consented to, and participated in the recording.

    If this theory is true, then she knows where the recording came from and how he got it.

    Theory 2: She did not know about the recording.

    She still knows who was there (herself and him). She knows she didn’t make the recording. A person of normal intelligence would be able to figure out that since she did not make the recording, the only other person in the room made the recording.

    Theory 3: (Yours) She did not know about the recording and was unable to figure out who made it.
    What is it you are suggesting about her intelligence that you don’t think she could have figured out who made the recording, knowing she didn’t do it herself, and knowing there was only one other person present. Hmmm?

    ” It’s on him, not her.”
    You’re still assuming facts not in evidence.

    She’s not admitting to participating in making the tape (gee… I wonder why? Is it because the police know about the existence of the recording, and are on the record threatening the other participant with child pornography charges? Is it because she’s technically still facing a sex abuse charge?)

    I don’t know if she was a happy, willing participant in the recording. Maybe she was, maybe he was a total jerk and either didn’t tell her he was making a recording or made one over her objections.. For all I know, SHE has her OWN recording, entirely separate from his, but had the sense not to tell anyone about it. I don’t know.

    I do know that many underage girls make, and send, photos and videos that would run afoul of state and federal child pornography laws, sometimes because they’re asked to do so, and sometimes without being asked. This does not make them “sluts” or ruin their lives, as a general rule.

  113. James Pollock May 25, 2017 at 10:09 pm #

    “Miranda is really completely irrelevant. ”

    Not quite completely.

    If his rights were violated, the parents might pursue a civil-rights lawsuit against the school, the school administrator personally, and/or the police agency that provided the resource officer.

    Since most people who have their “Miranda” rights violated are actual criminals, they make poor plaintiffs, and while they COULD sue for civil-rights violations, they are unlikely to win a jury trial (It’s also pretty hard to win a criminal case when police criminally abuse civil rights, up to and including wrongful death, for a number of reasons… it’s hard to get police to investigate, and even when they do investigate and find evidence, prosecutors often don’t charge them, and even when prosecutors charge them, juries often won’t convict. Even when someone’s recorded the crime. But that’s rambling.)

    The problem, here, is that it’s going to be very hard, if not impossible, to link damages to the violation of rights.

  114. G4Change May 26, 2017 at 2:11 am #

    This f***ing country is screwed. This makes me want to PUKE!!!

  115. Mary Alderman May 26, 2017 at 3:05 am #

    I am sorry Dienne, but your comments about suicide being the coward’s way out and vicious, cruel to those left behind seem to come from a lack of knowledge on your part. Yes suicide is a choice, but at the time a person attempts it, they feel like they have no other options. I know because I nearly ended my life, luckily I was blessed by people who were there for me. It was a horrible feeling though that I wouldn’t wish on my worst enemy. I hope you never feel that type of despair. Unfortunately for Corey like so many before him succeeded when if someone had caught him in time, he would be alive today. From reading all the posts I think we should all take a step back, breathe, and see what comes out of this sad story before rushing to judgment on both sides.

  116. Donna May 26, 2017 at 3:40 pm #

    “They’re supposed to call the parents before interviewing the minor. They did not do this. They do not claim that they DID do this.”

    They only have to call the parents if this was an actual criminal investigation. If it were a school investigation, there is no requirement that they call the parents. Having police officers in the school blurs this line somewhat, but the officer’s mere presence doesn’t make it a police criminal investigation as school resource officers do far more school discipline work than they do police work.

    Also, if they, as the mother seems to believe, never had any intention of charging the boy, it is not a true criminal investigation.

    “If the police admit they started interviewing your client before you arrive, do you need to know exactly what questions they asked to know if his rights were violated?”

    I need to know the general topic of the questions. My client’s rights are only violated if the police are interviewing him about the case I represent him on and, even then, only if my client doesn’t waive my appearance. If they are talking to him about anything else under the sun or he chooses to waive my presence his rights have not been violated. And both these things happen on a very routine basis.

  117. Donna May 26, 2017 at 4:27 pm #

    They also have to have actually interviewed the boy for it to violate the law. If they simply lectured him about the possible legal consequences without asking him any questions about the specific facts of this recording, they have not violated the law.

  118. James Pollock May 26, 2017 at 5:14 pm #

    “They only have to call the parents if this was an actual criminal investigation. If it were a school investigation, there is no requirement that they call the parents.”

    citation?

    “They only have to call the parents if this was an actual criminal investigation.” / “They also have to have actually interviewed the boy for it to violate the law.”

    “Officer Brett Heun asked Corey if he could download the contents of his phone and remove the “illegal items,” according to a police report.” — that sounds like a question, and part of an investigation.
    “According to the redacted police records, the officer and school dean spoke with Corey about the recording for 18 minutes before trying to reach his parents.”

    The newspaper investigated, consulting the police records and then asking a legal professional. If you find the legal analysis lacking, take it up with her.

    “‘There’s no question his parents should have been called,’ said Sheila Bedi, a Northwestern University law professor and an attorney with the school’s MacArthur Justice Center. ‘The clear intent of the law is to give a parent the opportunity to intervene if their child is being interrogated.'”

  119. Donna May 29, 2017 at 12:42 pm #

    “‘Officer Brett Heun asked Corey if he could download the contents of his phone and remove the “illegal items,” according to a police report.’— that sounds like a question, and part of an investigation.”

    Since a cop can’t actually destroy evidence by “removing illegal items” in the course of a police investigation, it doesn’t sound like a police investigation at all. Something that is actually conceded by the family of the boy.

    “The newspaper investigated, consulting the police records and then asking a legal professional. If you find the legal analysis lacking, take it up with her.”

    They consulted REDACTED police reports, don’t appear to have talked to anyone in the room and then found a legal professional who would render an OPINION on that. Did they ask other legal professionals who said they didn’t want to comment? Did they consult other legal professionals who disagree? (Note that I never said her opinion was wrong. Just that we didn’t have enough info).

    That said. I don’t disagree with her. The school absolutely should have contacted the parents. However, that doesn’t mean that they violated the law or his rights by failing to do so. There are many things that the police should do as best practices, but the failure to do them doesn’t result in a violation of rights.

    Even if the state law was violated, that doesn’t mean that the boy’s rights were violated. The stance of SCOTUS is that lack of parental presences does not per se make a confession inadmissible. It is just one of many factors to consider. I have no idea how this state law has been construed in relation to the Constitution.

  120. James Pollock May 29, 2017 at 1:03 pm #

    “Since a cop can’t actually destroy evidence by “removing illegal items” in the course of a police investigation, it doesn’t sound like a police investigation at all.”

    Since they CAN lie to suspects and obtain consent to search under false premises, it sure does.

    ” The stance of SCOTUS is that lack of parental presences does not per se make a confession inadmissible.”

    You’re answering a question that wasn’t asked.
    The question of inadmissibility hasn’t come up, because the suspect is beyond the reach of prosecution. What’s still in play is whether the family has a civil-rights lawsuit, which is a different matter and has different legal analysis. You spend all of your time in criminal law, so you view everything through a criminal-law lens. This isn’t that.
    How does the Supreme Court feel about custodial interrogation without a statement of Constitutional rights?

  121. SKL May 29, 2017 at 2:15 pm #

    Well I for one don’t think it’s a big deal that they waited 18 minutes before calling the parents. I actually wouldn’t think it was a big deal if they never called the parents, since they did not intend to pursue criminal charges.

  122. Dingbat May 29, 2017 at 11:36 pm #

    @Dienne

    The source article says it was a consensual sexual encounter just before Christmas, just a few weeks before the suicide.

    “The following day, Naperville police suspected that Corey — who had no criminal history and had never been in serious trouble at school — had video on his phone of a consensual sexual encounter with a 16-year-old classmate and possibly played it for friends.

    It does not appear any pornographic images were found on the teen’s phone, but it did contain a file with audio of the sexual encounter. Police did not intend to pursue charges, records show, and they indicated they wanted to handle the matter in a way that ensured Corey understood the seriousness of his actions and how it affected his classmate.

    On Jan. 11, records show, a female classmate told a dean that she had learned that Corey had a recording of a sexual encounter they had shortly before Christmas, and believed he had played it for friends. Police described her as “mortified,” according to the coroner’s report.”

    She could have been unaware of the recording though it does not say there “may have been a recording”. She knew he had a recording and “believed” he had played it for friends.

    There were no identifiable pornographic images to be found, just audio.

    https://www.isba.org/ibj/2010/04/sextingitsnojokeitsacrime

    In Illinois, a person commits the offense of child pornography by videotaping or photographing anyone he or she should know is under the age of 18 and who is engaged in any sexual act or in any pose involving lewd exhibition of unclothed or transparently clothed genitals, pubic area, buttocks, or female breast.

    There is no exception for taking pictures of oneself. Thus, a 17-year-old who snaps his or her own revealing picture has technically created child pornography, a Class 1 felony with a mandatory fine of between $2,000 and $100,000 and at least four years in prison.17 It would not be a crime if the teen were 18.

    Soliciting or enticing someone one should know is under the age of 18 to appear in such a picture or videotape is also a child pornography offense. Thus, a 16-year-old boy violates the Act if he asks his 16-year-old girlfriend to send him a semi-naked picture. If the youth is 17 or older and uses the Internet to solicit the sext message from a minor, he or she may also be charged with “indecent solicitation of a child,” a Class 4 felony.

    Forwarding a sext message to others may also constitute the offense of child pornography. Reproducing or disseminatingsuch pictures of a person one should know is under the age of 18 is an offense of child pornography. A teen who sends his or her own picture to another also violates this provision.

    ^^ Child porn did not apply to the situation under the law.

    These laws are incredibly messed up in several situations and are being picked apart by legal experts far and winds because many are based on laws from 1983, and misapplied. People are misapplying it to use harsh punishments and scare/shame teens out of the behavior. It’s similar to what the highly flawed but Radfem favored Nordic Model of prostitution is designed for. It allows women to advertise and sell but harshly persecuted men in attempt to shame, discourage and break people from it. Anywho…

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/09/21/n-c-just-prosecuted-a-teenage-couple-for-making-child-porn-of-themselves/

    The source article about this situation also mentions this…

    Corey, his parents said, must have realized the gravity of the situation. For years, his parents had lectured him about how bad decisions — especially ones involving sex — could lead to serious problems. Every time there was a news story about a teenager in trouble with police, his mother pointed it out to him.

    “We had lots of what we called ‘Making good choices’ conversations,” Doug Walgren said.

    In fact, the Walgrens had had one of those conversations with Corey the previous weekend. He had confided to them he recently had had a sexual encounter, in large part because he told them it had been his first time and he was worried about potential consequences.

    Why he was worried, I don’t know. Did he record audio in a dark room. Was she aware? Was she not aware? Did she ask him to? Did she become worried after finding out about the child porn laws there? Did she become embarrassed when she heard he may have played audio for friend?
    Why did she go to the dean of the school? One can ask a million questions.

    Like others said, I do not think it was malicious, especially if it was his first time. Playing audio to friends, if he did in fact do this, is a violation of trust but one could say the same about describing it in detail. I wish many would be smarter about these things but some are not. I’m sure many took polaroids in my teen years and no one was the wiser (except for few friends may have seen it).

    Teens (male and fml) often discuss their first sexual experience, in detail, with other friends. They always have, they always will. Curiosity can get the better of some. I would like to think if I were a teen now I would resist the temptation but studies say the nbr who share images and record is fairly high.

  123. Dingbat May 29, 2017 at 11:43 pm #

    This story makes me absolutely sick to my stomach and I hope changes do come from it.

  124. Dingbat May 30, 2017 at 12:07 am #

    @SKL

    They should have the parents in the office before they ever brought him in. No if, and’s or buts. This was not a high priority situation where threats had been made and they immediately needed to speperate and search a student. I fully understand that.

    An accusation had been made about a breech of trust during a consensual sexual encounter. The wording in the article, stating police had no intentions of charging, makes it seem as if they were already aware it was an audio recording alone. It was mentioned that they just wanted to make sure he was aware of the problems things like this could cause, and knew that it had hurt a classmate. In other words, they wanted to scare him straight with threats of prison and his life being over. Either that or they were scrambling to civer their ass because they had apparently redacted and omitted most of the information in the report, including the entire scenario at the high school, shortly after the suicide. Further info had to be obtained from another report in possession of the coroner.

    They apparently had to ask the mother for consent to search his phone so that means from the time she got the call, left work, and got to the school the officer saw it was just an audio file. Her son was already gone by the time he got there.

  125. Dingbat May 30, 2017 at 12:22 am #

    I am 100% positive that the statement saying the sex was consensual was confirmed by the both dean and the police. I’m pretty sure the police would want to get a statement from her. Journalists did get her name from police reports. If they just took the deans words, that officer is an even bigger moron.

  126. James Pollock May 30, 2017 at 1:23 am #

    “This story makes me absolutely sick to my stomach and I hope changes do come from it.”

    Who is going to be charged with what?
    The only outstanding criminal matter is the fact that the girl in this story is guilty of misdemeanor sex abuse.

  127. JP Merzetti June 5, 2017 at 7:24 pm #

    Sex sells.
    Apparently, sex also kills.
    I’m thinking that this dude was murdered by the state.
    It is astonishing how easily that happens.

    A long time ago, the little town of Salem also had these problems.
    Apparently we haven’t learned much, since then.

    Why did anyone ever think that the mixture of kids, sex, and modern technology would ever turn out to be a good thing? (Talk about growing pains!)
    Those teckie toys are time bombs in your hand, kiddo.

    I was quite sexual actually, at his age.
    But also smarter than luckier.
    And infinitely luckier to have lived in a hard-knock common sense world, unlike the current pudgy, malevolent brand of ethical ineptitude now arrived.

    This boy’s death didn’t need to happen.
    His death was a monstrous mistake.

    So let’s talk, shall we? About the horrid little “mistakes” that sub-adult teenagers make, these days.
    Their biggest problem might just be that we just can’t get over ourselves.