“Thankfully, the Children are OK.” Mom Arrested Anyway

Readers, Here is the latest instance of what happens when a country has been brainwashed into believing that any parent who makes a mistake is a menace who deserves her kids taken away.

In this case, an Atlanta mom of four kids, ages 1-6, had them wait in the  car for all of 16 minutes while she ran into the grocery. One version of the story says the windows were rolled down, which suggests to me there was zero problem. The kids might be sticky — it was 90 — but so was everyone in Atlanta just a generation ago.

Another report says the windows were rolled up, but doesn’t say if the a.c. was on. If it was, again, then there was no problem as far as I”m concerned. If the a.c. was off, then the mom needs to be told that cars heat up quickly and on a hot summer day this can, indeed, be dangerous.

She does not need to be hauled off to jail and informed that even if she makes bail, she will not be allowed to have contact with her children, which is what WSBTV is  reporting. But first, it says:

She will appear in front of a judge today on four counts of reckless conduct.

The children were given water and evaluated, but determined to be fine.

“They were checked out by EMS and are OK, thankfully,” Sgt. Gregory Lyons told WSBTV. “(Mosley) has been charged with four counts of reckless conduct and she’ll be going to Fulton County Jail this evening.”

Mosley is being held on $8,000 bail.

No one is suggesting that it is a good idea to keep kids in a hot, locked car with no a.c. and the windows up. But if that is what the mom did, how about showing some compassion for how hard it is to shop with four young kids, rather than making her life infinitely more difficult and despairing?

The kids were fine. They look adorable and well cared for. Rather than criminalizing a bad parenting decision (if that’s what this was), how about telling the mom not to do it again?

We sure do love jailing overwhelmed moms!

A mom of 4 is in an Atlanta jail.

A mom of 4 is in an Atlanta jail.

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123 Responses to “Thankfully, the Children are OK.” Mom Arrested Anyway

  1. Dirk July 30, 2014 at 11:08 am #

    Jail is too much no duh for one time thing. BUT…

    Come on. What person doesn’t know that this isn’t common practice now? What person doesn’t know that leaving your kids in a car for a length of time will result in the cops being called? To do so is to INVITE the response.

    And again. People call the cops because they don’t know how long the kid is in the car. And the cops act the way they do because they also don’t know. Trust the parents judgement you say. I agree. But when no one is there to tell you what the parents judgement was then you get this situation.

    Would you rather the cop just walked by and said “meh, isn’t my business…?”

    The danger is yes very very very unlikely. I totally agree. It is incredibly unlikely to happen. It is. Mainly because most people do not leave their children in cars, and if they do they do it for an appropriate amount of time.

    It is unlikely. But here is the reason people and the cops act the way they do…when they see the child that has been left in a car…and there is no adult in the area who shows up to claim them…they don’t know how long they have been there.
    Read the item below. The scenario below is why people and cops act the way they do. Is it unlikely? Sure. But it happens. And it happens in as little as 20 minutes. And no cop wants to be the guy who did nothing that one time it happened…

    A Fishers woman was charged Thursday with felony child neglect after police found her 16-month-old daughter left alone in a hot SUV last week.

    Meg Trueblood, 30, is accused of leaving her daughter for at least an hour while she went shopping Saturday afternoon.
    According to the probable cause affidavit, Fishers Police were called to the scene outside Simply Chic on East 96th Street at around 3:30 pm after someone noticed the child inside the SUV.

    The responding officer went inside the store and asked if anyone there owned the SUV, but he could not locate the owner. He went back outside, smashed the window and took the girl out of the SUV and into the store.
    Police say the temperature inside the SUV was 124 degrees, and the temperature outside was 102, with a heat index of 107.

    The little girl was limp and unresponsive, and began to go into seizures as the officer and store employees tried to cool her down. During that time, Trueblood identified herself as the girl’s mother.

    A store employee told the officer that Trueblood had been in the store for around an hour. The employee said she was helping Trueblood find a dress because Trueblood told her she was meeting a man later that night.


    Who wants to be the person or the cop who doesn’t smash in that window?

  2. Dirk July 30, 2014 at 11:14 am #

    Unless she is a repeat offender jail us detrimental, no duh, in the same article linked in the blog post it mentions another mother who did the same stupid thing (because her circumstances where dire) and it had much better outcome. “Earlier this month she reached a deal with prosecutors to drop the charges in exchange for taking parenting classes…”

  3. Warren July 30, 2014 at 11:19 am #

    Can you tell the difference between a sleeping child and a passed out child, thru a window?

    And I will tell you the same thing I tell others.
    If you see my kids and or dogs in my truck on anyday, any weather, it is none of your damn business. Should I witness you smashing a window, I will react to protect my kids and or dogs, with a probably very violent and physical act. Which will leave you with very serious injuries.
    It is a father’s instinct to do so. And trust me, I would sleep just fine with my actions.

    Your intentions may be honourable, but that is irrelevant. I witness a violent attempt to get at my kids……..well dude I hope your health insurance is paid up.

  4. Dirk July 30, 2014 at 11:22 am #

    But I would really like to see some stats on the number of “rescues” a year and the number of parents then charged with something.

  5. E July 30, 2014 at 11:25 am #

    @Warren – I know you are the kind of person that wouldn’t leave a kid in a car in the heat to begin with (I’m talking about heat+windows up+kids retrained), but you’ve got to agree if this is the situation:

    “Police say the temperature inside the SUV was 124 degrees, and the temperature outside was 102, with a heat index of 107.”

    Then whomever and however that situation came to be, breaking the window to get them out was the correct course of action.

    If we’re going to acknowledge that “accidents happen” or “parents make mistakes”, we can at least agree that when someone happens upon that mistake (I’m talking about the example above) that helping the helpless trumps minding my own business. Or I hope so.

  6. Buffy July 30, 2014 at 11:25 am #

    Dirk, don’t you have anything to do but provide us with walls of text and internet research? Go play with the kid(s) you allege to have, or something.

  7. Warren July 30, 2014 at 11:27 am #

    Do you suffer from ADD? Stay on point. This isn’t about forgetting kids in the car, not about leaving them in a car for extended periods of time. It was 16 mins. Try to stay on point for a change.
    We all already know you have no life outside of posting as many links as you can to show of you lol skills.

  8. Mark Roulo July 30, 2014 at 11:29 am #

    Can you tell the difference between a sleeping child and a passed out child, thru a window?

    And I will tell you the same thing I tell others.
    If you see my kids and or dogs in my truck on anyday, any weather, it is none of your damn business. Should I witness you smashing a window, I will react to protect my kids and or dogs, with a probably very violent and physical act. Which will leave you with very serious injuries.
    It is a father’s instinct to do so. And trust me, I would sleep just fine with my actions.

    Your intentions may be honourable, but that is irrelevant. I witness a violent attempt to get at my kids……..well dude I hope your health insurance is paid up.

    “Can you tell the difference between a sleeping child and a passed out child, thru a window? … I will react to protect my kids and or dogs”

    I’m guessing that you’d be equally unhappy with some passerby trying to open a car door to see if your kids were okay.

    Which should help to answer Lenore’s unasked question: Why do folks call the police?

    Answer: Because they are worried about the kid(s) and there is risk in dealing with the situation without the police.

    I offer no suggestion for improvement, but there you have it.

  9. Dirk July 30, 2014 at 11:30 am #

    @ Warren

    Bystanders and cops have zero idea how much time has gone by. 16 minutes or 16 hours. They don’t know. That is the issue.

  10. Dirk July 30, 2014 at 11:34 am #

    Until the 90s though this wasn’t an issue. And the reasons are

    1) car seats (which people have mentioned here before) and
    2) Air Conditioning.

    In the land before time a bystander or cop could stick their head in the roll downed window and literally see the kid was ok close up. Not a panacea but it was something. That coupled with the fear and paranoia factor and the it bleeds it leads media and the reports a cop sees and you get the “report and rip em out” mentality. But I just shake my head every time I see a news report on this. What sort of person doesn’t know this is likely to happen, this response from people and cops?

  11. Sandi July 30, 2014 at 11:35 am #

    I agree that jail is over the top and certainly separating the kids from their mom is just wrong. However, I do think she made a huge mistake if the car windows were up. If that’ the case, I think the proper response from the police would be to educate her and let her go on her way. This is what they do for lots of other things. She obviously was not intentionally trying to hurt her children.

    By the way, why couldn’t the 6 yr old simply open the door if they were getting too hot? I know mine would. Actually, I’ve left my 8 and 6 yr old in the car with the windows down and when they felt too hot, they got out of the car. Not such a big deal.

  12. Dirk July 30, 2014 at 11:41 am #

    Hi Sandi, this is just an assumption but I bet you cops don’t give out warnings for this because they don’t want to be the guy that one time that gave out a warning that didn’t stick you know? I also believe that in some locations they don’t have any discretion for the particular crime…

  13. Manny July 30, 2014 at 11:43 am #

    “We sure do love jailing overwhelmed moms!”

    This is the real war on women

  14. Dirk July 30, 2014 at 11:45 am #

    I would love to get an actual cops view on this…

  15. Dirk July 30, 2014 at 11:46 am #

    And as I said. I would really like to see some stats on the number of “rescues” a year and the number of parents then charged with something.

  16. ChicagoDad July 30, 2014 at 11:55 am #

    How about this story:

    Mom is at the pediatrician with a (maybe sick) 9yo. Leaves a 2-month old in the hot car. Realizes with terror an hour later. Baby survives, reporter adds:”There was no immediate word on whether she’ll face charges.” As though a sleep deprived and imperfect parent of sick kid and an infant is expected to be punished.

  17. Warren July 30, 2014 at 11:58 am #

    Where are you getting these inside temps from?

    I’ll put a sign on my truck just for you. Touch the truck, and if the dog don’t getcha, Dad sure as hell will.

    And I love how people on here even are prefering to believe the report of the windows up as opposed to the one with the windows down.

    Exactly, you don’t know. And I don’t know when I see you breaking into my truck with my kids in it. So off to the hospital you go. I guess then we are both covered by the excuse “I didn’t know.”

  18. Diego July 30, 2014 at 11:58 am #

    So, imagine there was a couple instead of only one parent, one of them goes to the shop the other remains in the car with the windows down. Are the kids at risk? does this person staying in the car have some supernatural cooling ability? just saying i see no problem in them staying itn the car with the windows down.

  19. ChicagoDad July 30, 2014 at 12:01 pm #

    Update: Mom of 2 month old in FL is charged with neglect.


    Yep. Punished for being human,

  20. Elle July 30, 2014 at 12:04 pm #

    I am a sah mom who has frequently in the past left my three children in the car while I pop in somewhere for a quick errand. Usually when I can see the car through a front window (such as post office, grocery store, dry cleaners, or dropping off other kids at activities etc). I wouldn’t leave them for extended periods while I cruise the mall…, or in sweltering heat with no A/C on….I use common sense just as I do in evaluating every safety related situation I encounter as a parent. However, I have recently stopped doing this, not because I fear some grave consequence for my children, but because I am scared to death of being arrested for it!

  21. BL July 30, 2014 at 12:12 pm #

    “I would love to get an actual cops view on this…”

    “It helps us make our monthly arrest quota, without the danger of having to confront real criminals!”

  22. E July 30, 2014 at 12:23 pm #

    @Warren, I probably should have just skipped posting my post..i was in response to Dirk’s post (that included a link) about a DIFFERENT situation from the main post, sorry if I was confusing.

    I have no idea how hot the car is and also wondered how police measure that (maybe they do that now to document the situation). In any event, if it was over 100 degrees outside (known) with a heat index even higher, getting to 125 would take a very short amount of time.

    But like I said, I should have stuck to the main subject.

    As far as this woman? It makes a big difference on whether the windows were up or down….and if they were up, then I suppose it’s still unfortunate, but it gets tricky for the law. She made a conscious decision to do that, and by anyone’s measure…that’s not responsible parenting. I presume that’s when CPS looks into things…when you make a conscious and poor decision? It’s so tough.

  23. SteveS July 30, 2014 at 12:26 pm #

    If it really was a situation where the windows were rolled up and there no AC, I would definitely say that was a “bad parenting decision.” Assuming that she doesn’t have some kind of record for this or a history of “bad parenting”, then I don’t see why she should be jailed and charged. This seems like a better candidate for a warning or a slap on the wrist.

    Warren, you are going to assault the cop that breaks your window? Good luck with that. I hope you have good life insurance.

  24. Donna July 30, 2014 at 12:33 pm #

    If the windows were rolled down, no problem. The kids will be uncomfortable, but who the heck isn’t uncomfortable outside in Georgia at the end of July. They will survive being uncomfortable.

    It is too hot in Georgia to leave kids in cars for more than a minute or two in the summer with the windows rolled up. Anyone who has spent any time in Georgia in the summer should realize that. Worrying and calling the police in this situation is not necessarily uncalled for. I don’t think she needs to be arrested, but it was a bonehead move if the windows were up.

  25. Becca Gutwirth July 30, 2014 at 12:35 pm #

    I have never responded to one of these posts before, but I feel compelled now. I do believe that we are overprotective these days, but think if she had left these kids at home. Would it be okay to leave 4 kids, ages 1-6 in the house along for that time. We would probably say no. What if she got delayed, there was traffic, and accident (whether she was involved or just held up by it). Is it safe to leave those 4 kids in the house alone? You could say, I take a shower for 15 minutes and the kids are “alone”. Yes, you do, but the kids know how to reach you in that case. What if one of the kids had decided they needed to reach mom in this case? Do they get out of the car and walk across the parking lot to go find her? I don’t think jail is the right option, but I do think an investigation should take place to see if these kids are routinely left alone. Maybe a parent class is warranted, maybe it isn’t. But if you choose to have four kids, that is your choice. If you can’t take them all into the market with you, then hire a sitter, use a shop at home service, have a friend watch them, etc.

  26. Gina July 30, 2014 at 12:47 pm #

    Hi Warren
    Usually, I agree with your sensible posts. Today, however, I will state for the record
    IF IT IS A HOT DAY and I see your children or your dogs in a car that is not running with the windows rolled up, I will break the window, remove said living beings and take my chances with your retaliation.

  27. Rachele July 30, 2014 at 12:53 pm #

    @Becca Home alone and buckled into a carseat in the car are two different things. Presumably there aren’t any knives, stoves, or heavy bookcases in the car. They are contained in the car, in a way they are not at home, and the mom is across a parking lot, not across town. If the windows are down or the a/c is on, the 6 yr old can distract and entertain small siblings for 10 to 20 minutes with peek-a-boo or pat-a-cake with ease. EMTs and arrests and removal from the home are an overreaction to such a scenario. Frankly, a person assigned to protecting the public ought to be able to tell the difference between a smiling or relaxing child and a visibly distressed one even through a closed car window. Obviously, if we are talking about windows up, car turned off, in really hot weather, it is a different thing entirely, and some kind of precautions should be taken, maybe a full scale rescue, but if the kids seem okay, maybe just waiting for the mom. Is a calm, reasonable response really too much to ask? What’s with all the knee-jerking and melodrama? It makes zero sense to assume that a kid chilling in a car has been there for hours.

  28. Amy July 30, 2014 at 12:56 pm #

    Once again, the danger comes not from the hot car/stranger danger/unknown possibilities but from idiotic do-gooders and over-zealous cops. Frickin’ idiots.

  29. Jenny Islander July 30, 2014 at 12:58 pm #

    @Rachele: This just stuns me about this type of incident, and incidents where something innocuous that has gone on for generations is abruptly canceled because certain parties miiiiiiiiight be sued or drink something no kid who is fully cognitively capable will drink or whatever. It’s like the people who do this are infected with Demons of Stupidity.

    Common Sense: I see a child, not in distress.

    Demon of Stupidity: I see a checklist made out of all of my darkest imaginings, and the checklist says FEAR.

    Common Sense: The kid is fine.

    Demon of Stupidity: But the checklist says FEAR.

    Common Sense: But . . .


    The World: *gets stupider*

    Where’s Dogbert when we need him?

  30. Hels July 30, 2014 at 1:14 pm #

    So, if there was no harm, and no intent to harm, what is she being sued for? A possibility of harm? Then how about she files a counter-suit against police for battery. Sure, she was not beaten and there was no intent of it – but she could have sustained a bruise as a result of their actions! Same logic should apply both ways.

  31. Lance Mitaro July 30, 2014 at 1:29 pm #

    Here we go again! Just when I thought the country was leveling-out on the “for the children’s safety” fear mongering propaganda, another mom gets vilified for being a “bad” mother for letting her kid be a kid.

    What is the point in having children when you’re made to smother, coddle, shield and remain hyper-vigilant to their surroundings at all times?

    It’s all part of the unobtainable “not another child” mantra the victim’s advocacy groups chant all the time like wild banshees. Yeah, lets just keep the “all hands on deck” mentality approach to protecting children and arresting moms because that is REALLY gonna win the war on the unknown. Please.

  32. Warren July 30, 2014 at 1:30 pm #

    Then you are just as stupid as the cops and busybodies in these stories.

    My kids, not your call to make. And please do not assume that a woman doing that would get any sort of break, as compared to a man. Anyone brandishing a weapon, and you would need one to break the window, is fair game, at their own risk.

    I don’t care how hot the day is, in my truck they would never be at risk. And you would be damn hard pressed to prove they were at risk of abduction with the dogs with them.

    These self righteous morons are all over, even in here.

  33. Lance Mitaro July 30, 2014 at 1:37 pm #


  34. Warren July 30, 2014 at 1:38 pm #

    Not afraid of any uniform. They are not above the laws. And yes the SOB would have severe roadrash on his/her face, cop or not.
    You may be scared of them, I am not.

  35. E July 30, 2014 at 1:44 pm #

    Yes @Hels, she’s being charged (not sued) for reckless conduct.

    The concept is not unique. You can be charged for behavior that is against the law, even if there isn’t someone/something harmed. If you are brandishing a hand gun in public, but no one gets hurt, you can be charged…that kind of thing.

  36. Cynthia812 July 30, 2014 at 1:52 pm #

    The same people who are “thankful the kids are okay” are utterly unconcerned about the effects of having mom in jail and their lives disrupted. This drives me nuts.

  37. Gina July 30, 2014 at 2:27 pm #

    If your kids (or anyone’s) were NOT at risk, then I would not do anything. And of course I know that YOU would never leave them at risk, nor would I. It was more of a general YOU….because some people really do leave their kids (actually, here in Arizona, more likely to leave an animal) in their cars when they shouldn’t. If you saw a dog that was in obvious distress (drooling, half-concious) in a closed hot car and you WOULDN’T do something about it, then I feel only sadness at your lack of humanity. I have seen it happen where a person SAVED a dog….should that person just have walked on by? Would you?

  38. E July 30, 2014 at 2:27 pm #

    @Cynthia — your post is short, to the point, and so perfect.

  39. Elle July 30, 2014 at 2:29 pm #

    “But if you choose to have four kids, that is your choice. If you can’t take them all into the market with you, then hire a sitter, use a shop at home service, have a friend watch them, etc.”

    This comment bothers me because today’s parents are held to ridiculously high standards of accountability, basically keeping your eyes on your kid from no more than an arm’s length away for 18 years straight. And if you fail to meet this standard, then the retort is “well you shouldn’t have had kids then”. It’s not a matter that she COULDN’T take them in the store. It’s that it was probably easier/faster/less whinier. Maybe a baby was asleep and she didnt want to wake it and left it with the siblings. Who knows. But the kids by all accounts were fine!

  40. Gina July 30, 2014 at 2:31 pm #

    ALSO: I was not referring to abduction as a risk. I would only be concerned about the heat.

  41. Gina July 30, 2014 at 2:33 pm #

    Oh, and one more thing…I am all for discourse, debate and argument. But please refrain from calling me names. I am not stupid even if you disagree with me vehemently.

  42. Bob Cavanaugh July 30, 2014 at 2:35 pm #

    I agree with everyone on this site who says jail isn’t the right move in this case. It seems to me that Atlanta has been hit hard with these cases this summer. There was the dad charged with murder of his kid, then a couple weeks ago there was a dad arrested for a similar “crime” to this one, now this. Something’s up in Atlanta. I’ve only heard about 1 other case outside of this site this summer, that had to do with a child dying from being left in a hot car in Kansas. All the rest seem to be out of that area.

  43. Reziac July 30, 2014 at 2:38 pm #

    I’ve spoken to a lot of people about the problem of “leave kids alone for two seconds, get arrested” and hardly anyone was aware it’s an issue. But hey, spread the word! Insanity is more likely to be resisted when people know it’s possible before it happens.

    Parents today believe OMG the baby snatchers will steal your children if they aren’t securely locked up. So, rolled up car windows. This is far more likely to be in the forefront of a young parent’s mind than is “sun overheats closed car” — especially with this modern assumption that all enclosed spaces are automatically air conditioned.

    And yes, I have met nominal adults who did not understand that the A/C had to be powered somehow, they just thought indoors came that way.

    I think the real problem is that today’s young parents were the first generation who were “protected” from learning how the world works, including the fact that most kids old enough to go to school are old enough to roll down a window and sit on the shady side of the car.

    Assuming, of course, you’re not stuck with power windows and “child safe” door locks.

  44. Donald July 30, 2014 at 2:38 pm #

    I would like to see a follow up on this. Specifically whether or not the windows were down. That’s a huge difference! If the windows were down and the news changed the story so that the windows were up, it proves how facts are changed to increase drama. Who cares about the mother or jail time (we’ve all seen how public outrage affects the courtroom decision) So what about the distress of the children being taken from their mother. Maximum drama is the priority. Who cares about anything else?

  45. Emily July 30, 2014 at 2:44 pm #

    This “kids waiting in cars” issue seems to be a lose-lose situation, because if you close the windows, then half the sanctimommy crowd gets upset because “the children could get heat stroke or roast to death,” and if you leave them open, then the OTHER half of the sanctimommies get all up in arms because “they could have been kidnapped!!!” So, the only permissible option is to bring them into the store with you, where you’ll be branded as a “Bad Parent” if they attempt to dart away in the parking lot, or if they aren’t perfectly behaved and happy while in the store. I suppose you could just order everything online, and attempt to plan ahead for every cold, flu, virus, snowstorm, flood, earthquake, school project, holiday, birthday, vacation, and Pull-Up shortage, but then if you do that, the sanctimommies will start berating you for spending time on the computer/tablet/smartphone instead of doing crafts with the kids, or building them a backyard water park out of pool noodles.

  46. Emily July 30, 2014 at 3:23 pm #

    P.S., Of course it’s dangerous to lock kids in cars with the windows shut when it’s legitimately hot outside, but some people interpret that to mean that it’s dangerous to do it in ANY kind of weather. I didn’t mean that it was sanctimommy-ish to want to protect your kids from heat stroke in the summer.

  47. Jenna K. July 30, 2014 at 3:41 pm #

    So, so tired of these news stories. People need to mind their own business. Or, if they don’t, take care of it without involving the cops. Just because something could have happened doesn’t a crime make. It’s far worse to have the children removed from the mother. Kids get removed from their parents far too easily these days and that is traumatic for them. Don’t they take that into consideration ever?

  48. Dirk July 30, 2014 at 3:57 pm #

    Warren…you strike me as the very type of guy who WOULD rip open a car door to get a kid out of a car if need be…

  49. Nicole 2 July 30, 2014 at 4:00 pm #

    It sounds like it was closed up (124* F in the car) in which case mom made a huge mistake and does need consequences. Jail, for a first offense, is likely an overstep. I do think some criminal consequences, along with a CPS investigation, is warranted, though. This was a very, very poor choice and could potentially have led to serious, potentially life threatening, dehydration and hyperthermia. Having six kids is hard, but this still isn’t something you can do.

    I’m totally behind you when this happens on cloudy 70* days and the windows are rolled down. That is safe. This situation was not safe. I hope that the court is understanding, works with her, and she gets her kids back. I also hope the court ensures that this isn’t a pattern of very dangerous decisions, and if it is, that they offer her whatever help and parenting classes she needs in order to care for her kids before she regains custody.

  50. E July 30, 2014 at 4:14 pm #

    The 124 was a different story that Dirk posted.

    I think the only info we have is that it was 90 in ATL the day this happened. If the car windows were closed it was obviously hotter than that, even 16 minutes in.

  51. Caiti July 30, 2014 at 4:23 pm #

    I can’t believe how far they taking this. I am so disgusted. I feel physically sick with hurt for this poor mom.

  52. Beth July 30, 2014 at 4:25 pm #

    I am so tired of this seeming belief that there are so many parents who don’t care about their kids and don’t care if they die in a hot car, and it’s up to us citizens to save them. I refuse to believe this is an epidemic, and I believe that most parents cherish their children and don’t want them to die.

    And guess what…windows up or windows down (and why is it so hard for professional journalists to get the correct information) these kids were examined by EMTs and found to be fine. FINE. They didn’t bake to death in seconds flat as it is always warned that they will. They were fine. Their Mom was not trying to kill them.

    But are they fine now, with Mom in jail and not allowed contact?

  53. Nicole 2 July 30, 2014 at 4:31 pm #

    Ah, okay, then I misread. I do think jail is an overstep, but if the car windows were rolled up, I do agree there should be intervention.

    It’s a delicate balancing act, I really wish there was a clear black and white, *this is safe* *this is not safe* guideline. I do think when things fall in the intermediate area that benefit of the doubt and discretion need to be used, although not so liberally as to place a child in serious danger or make people think they have license to do whatever they want with their kids, no matter the threat.

  54. SOA July 30, 2014 at 4:43 pm #

    I don’t know…ages 1 to 6 is kinda young to be left out there that long alone. Now if she just rolled the windows down and ran in for 5 minutes or less, that is okay like to grab a newspaper or something, but 16 minutes is pushing it to me. Those kids are too young that if something happened with the baby where it started choking or something I doubt the 6 year old could deal with it. A 10 year old sure, but not a 6 year old.

    Also it is soooooo hot in the south. I know Atlanta weather and I would not enjoy sitting in a car even with the windows rolled down in the Atlanta summer heat. Hell no. So I do think this mother fouled up here.

    I don’t know if it is jail worthy since nothing happened, but at least she needs some parenting classes.

  55. SOA July 30, 2014 at 4:45 pm #

    If the windows were rolled up though she does belong in jail. That is too hot to leave someone in the car even 5 minutes. When it is that hot I even tell the kids to leave the car doors open while I return the car that only takes 30 seconds. It could have killed them fast.

  56. CrazyCatLady July 30, 2014 at 4:51 pm #

    Did anyone try to talk to the 6 year old? BEFORE they called the cops? Were the kids happy? If they all seemed pretty happy, and not overheating….what is the problem? When you have a 6 year old and he/she is not responding, that is different.

  57. Max July 30, 2014 at 4:53 pm #

    This is just another example of the criminal system overreaction. US is a country with the highest incarceration rate in the civilized world.

    I still think that leaving children locked in a car is a dangerous habit, and the mom should be cited.

  58. SOA July 30, 2014 at 5:00 pm #

    Warren: Would you care if they stood there and took video and/or photos of your kids in the car with the windows rolled up? LOL

  59. JKP July 30, 2014 at 5:10 pm #

    Kids who die in hot cars is a tragedy, yes. But there is a huge difference between an infant or toddler strapped into a car seat they can’t get out of, stuck in a car, and a school aged child (6-years old!) left in a car with younger siblings. The 6 year old can open the doors, can go in the store and fetch the mother.

    There’s also a huge difference on where it happens. In front of any store involving a quick errand, it’s likely they haven’t been there that long, likely the parents will be out soon, and if the car is still there once you’ve run your own short errand, you can wait for the parents or go in the store looking for them. If the car is parked in front of the casino or bar, I would be more concerned, but I wouldn’t call the cops immediately either.

    One thing that puzzles me. How do all these people notice the kids in the car? Do other people routinely look in every car they walk by? I only look if a dog barks at me as I walk by or a kid is screaming. But I don’t look inside every car I pass by. That seems a bit nosy.

  60. Tamara July 30, 2014 at 5:19 pm #

    Hey Warren, I am just wondering, completely hypothetically, if you DID leave your kids in the truck all quite safely, air conditioning on or whatever else is necessary. AND for some silly reason you could not get back to your truck (you had a heart attack, or something completely unforeseeable occurs – would you THEN expect someone else to maybe, perhaps, go rescue your own kids by trying to get into your vehicle? Or would you prefer that still, no one goes near your truck or your kids? Is there any scenario where you would hope someone would intervene? or is it simply your choice = your problem and or/loss?

    Dirk is right about one thing – people walking by cannot tell how long your kids have been in the car, but my position is, if you can see that child or children (or dog) are happy, playing, looking completely UNstressed, just wave hello and walk on by, people.

  61. anonymous mom July 30, 2014 at 5:22 pm #

    @SOA: Why would she need a parenting class? She just needs to be made aware of 1) what the laws regarding leaving children in cars are in her state and 2) the dangers of leaving kids in a car with the windows rolled up. That’s it. No parenting class needed.

    And she certainly didn’t need to be arrested.

    My God. Would it be a bad choice if she left them in the car with the windows rolled up? Sure, but it’s obviously not quite as dangerous as everybody thinks, since every single one of her kids were just fine. But, a bad choice is not a reason for an arrest. I let my kids split a box of graham crackers for lunch today. Was that the best, healthiest move I could have made? No. But I’ve got a two-week old baby and reality comes above the ideal right now.

    Her kids were fine. I’m not sure why we think this is a footnote. If she had been in there much longer, could they have been in danger? Sure. But there’s any number of situations in which a kid could potentially, in the future, be in danger. If my kids are running around outside in the 95 degree sun, and they don’t drink anything for many hours, they could be in danger. I don’t want or expect neighbors to report me for letting my kids play outside on a hot day, though, and I don’t think their doing so is necessary to ensure my kids’ safety.

    Her kids were completely fine. That should be the end of the story. They are fine, she is reminded/told of the dangers of leaving kids in a car with the windows up, and everybody moves on.

    On a side note, while 124 degrees is hot, it’s not going to immediately kill you. I do think we tend to overreact to heat. It feels awful and unpleasant–I hate the heat more than anybody I know–but it has to be REALLY hot for it to be harmful enough to cause illness or death in a short time frame. We don’t have a/c in most of my house, and on hot days, it can get to the high 90s in the house. It’s unpleasant, but the kids and I are in no danger. And, this is in the upper Midwest. There are parts of the world where it is 110-120, and people don’t have a/c, and people manage okay. Now, when it’s 120 outside, that’s when it can get to 180 or even 200 degrees inside your car, and that would be extremely, extremely dangerous. But, 120 isn’t hot enough to kill somebody in minutes, and we probably do need to chill out about heat a bit. I know the weather reports last summer had me half convinced my family was going to die because we didn’t have air-conditioning–every time it was above about 90, they issued dire warnings about how dangerous it was and how we needed to get to a cooling center–until I remembered that people survived Michigan summers without a/c for generations. We certainly shouldn’t be totally cavalier about the heat, but it’s not good to be overly alarmist, either. Being in a 110 degree car for a bit is not going to kill you. I have friends who do Bikram and spend an hour working out in a humid, 104 degree room, and it sounds like hell to me, but they’ve all come out alive. By all means, leave the windows down if you have the kids in the car on a hot day, but I do think we have gotten a bit alarmist about the dangers of heat exposure, and have trouble separating the unpleasant from the dangerous.

  62. Betty July 30, 2014 at 5:50 pm #

    This made me sick to read. Some of the comments suggest active heat stroke and the poster should seek assistance. “124 degrees isn’t bad” -Are you kidding me?!

    I lived in the desert. People died all the time from heat exposure. 1 bad summer, we averaged 1 death a week.

    If an adult chooses to test their endurance, that is one thing. Leaving dependent young children, alone, in a car is inexcusable. They are not likely to be developmentally capable of self-rescue. -Yes, the point of this website is to challenge our children…but surely that should be limited to challenges that won’t result in death or permanent brain damage and a life-time of disability.

  63. Donna July 30, 2014 at 6:00 pm #

    I disagree with the stance that as long as the child(ren) is fine, everything is good. There are many parenting choices that are negligent despite the fact that everyone survived just fine. I could leave my 8 year old home for the weekend while I go away with friends. There is every possibility that she would survive just fine. That doesn’t mean that it is not negligent parenting to leave an 8 year old home alone for the weekend. It is like playing Russian Roulette: yes, you’ll be fine most of the time, but eventually the loaded chamber will click.

    And, drawing the conclusion that “alls well that ends well” naturally leads to the opposite conclusion of “if everything doesn’t end well, you did something wrong and should go to prison.” I’d rather consider the reasonableness of actions, rather than just look at the outcome because that leads to the need for blame when an accident occurs. We already have way too much of that in the US, especially when it comes to children.

    There are some things that are just inherently dangerous parenting despite the fact that the kids survived. Leaving a child in an enclosed car for more than a minute or two in the summer in Georgia is quite possibly one of them. We’ve had an unusually cool (relatively) couple of weeks, but it’s still a bad move in general.

    That doesn’t mean that I think she should go to jail, but I do think she needs to understand that this was a bad choice and not just see it blown off as “alls well that ends well.”

  64. Donna July 30, 2014 at 6:02 pm #

    “I believe that most parents cherish their children and don’t want them to die.”

    That is true. And if all it took to parent children was to cherish them and not wanting them to die, no child would ever need CPS because no child would ever be abused or neglected. The vast majority of CPS cases involve parents who cherish their children and don’t want them to die. Heck, our client who is convicted of murdering her child cherished that child and didn’t want him to die. He still died at her hands.

    A lot of parents who cherish their children still make bad choices concerning those children. Maybe because, despite cherishing their children, they are addicted. Maybe because they just don’t know any better. Maybe because they have anger issues. Maybe because they just didn’t think it through. Maybe because they are trying too hard to be friends. Maybe because they have too many other pressures on them. Maybe because they don’t have the strength to stand up for themselves. Maybe a million reasons. This idea that a loving parent is per se a good parent – or that an abusive parent doesn’t love their kids – is simply wrong.

  65. Tamara July 30, 2014 at 6:11 pm #

    That’s the thing, right? – it is a real issue in certain areas at certain times (in Canada it’s more an issue when it’s -40, not so much with the plus 40) and yes people and kids and pets die, buuut – they USUALLY DON’T and people tend to over react in the strictest sense of the phrase. So I am trying to figure out: when is it ok for a stranger or police to intervene? I will leave my 9 year old alone in the car while I run into the store because hey, she is NINE and knows how to open a car door! But my six year old I will not leave alone. Not because she doesn’t know how to open a car door but because Other People will think she can’t and while I wouldn’t shy away from a confrontation with Other People or the police if necessary, I would prefer to choose my battles.

    If they are strapped into car seats or if they are a pet (who can’t unlock doors, at least mine can’t) I would not leave them out of my sight lines to run anywhere – I used to pump my darn gas at a pay at the pump station so I wouldn’t have to think Geez, do I really need to get my baby and toddler out of their car seats in a snowstorm to walk the twenty feet to the kiosk to pay for my gas?! I feel confident at six and nine that they will be just fine.

  66. Warren July 30, 2014 at 6:18 pm #

    Actually a slim jim works better, no damage. And yes I would, but only after being absolutely certain that all other avenues have been tried. Breaking into someone’s car for any reason, has to be an absolute last resort.
    Unlike what a lot of people are promoting it be first action taken.

    Go for it, take all the pics and videos you want. My dogs are cute, and my kids are beautiful.

    No, I would expect my kids to get off their asses and come looking for me. Hands of my kids, hands of my dogs and hands off my trucks. How hard is that to understand.

  67. Tamara July 30, 2014 at 6:55 pm #

    Warren – not hard to understand, just wanted clarification – did I type too aggressively? I see you are protective of “your stuff”.

    Expecting your kids to come find you is, in my opinion, an ideal outcome and what I would expect of my kids as well.

  68. Laura July 30, 2014 at 7:13 pm #

    I think the biggest problem is that there a HUGE difference between leaving your kids in the car while running an errand and using it as a babysitter while you’re out partying or forgetting about them. From what I’ve seen all of the deaths are because parents forgot them or were left while the parent went partying. It’s all been lumped together and has become one offense. Personally, I will continue to leave my kids in the car when running a quick errand AND the conditions are safe. If I get harassed or arrested so be it, I will fight for common sense and responsible parenting.

  69. SOA July 30, 2014 at 7:23 pm #

    Warren: I am sure they are. Unlike you I would not insult your kids.

    You do realize though that you are somewhat hypocritical when you say people have a right to photograph you in public and you have no right to privacy in public and its not harassment, but then tell me that I cannot go near your kids in public even if we both just happened to be using the same playground or sidewalk or cul de sac? Because those things are kinda the same thing.

    If people just have to suck up whatever happens in public and deal that other people might speak to you or take your picture or follow you, etc then you can’t on the same hand say you would call the cops on me for speaking to your kids as I pass them on the sidewalk or as we play on the same playground.

  70. SOA July 30, 2014 at 7:30 pm #

    I am with Donna that loving parent does not always equal good parent. I have seen plenty of parents that loved their kids. My best friend’s brother loves his kid. But he still is not allowed to parent him by the state because he is a drug addict that cannot get clean even though everyone is trying to help him and paid for his rehab and everything. To him, of course he loves his son. But he is still a shitty parent. He loves drugs more than his son. He refuses to get clean. He seems okay with his sister having the burden of raising his son for him even though it causes her tons of stress. Even when he is there like at a birthday party to help with his son he still dumps his son on his sister for anything difficult or when he starts acting up.

    So no, loving parent does not mean good parent. Just no. To be a good parent it requires the willingness to sometimes put your wants and needs aside and some people are completely incapable of doing that. People like my best friend’s brother.

  71. Donna July 30, 2014 at 7:46 pm #

    “He loves drugs more than his son.”

    He doesn’t love drugs more than his son. In fact, if he has been using for awhile (as it sounds), he probably hates drugs and they largely make him miserable. Addiction is not a matter of choice. The first time you try drugs it is a choice. Unfortunately many believe that it will be different for them — they will be one of the ones who don’t get addicted. After that it becomes a curse.

  72. Melanie Jones July 30, 2014 at 7:51 pm #

    Isn’t the issue that the kids are not alright? Imagine a child is in their car awake sitting happily and someone breaks out the window and glass goes all over them. The child was alright, until that ‘hero’ showed up and covered them in broken glass. Imagine a child is in their car awake sitting happily and someone calls a police officer over and then 10 minutes later their mother is in jail and they are in custody wondering what they did wrong. The child is not alright in that situation either. If you want to think about what the right thing is to do in these situations, stop and imagine yourself as a small child. There is a point at which intervention is helpful – the point at which the child is actually receiving some benefit. It could be you pausing to take an extra look to see if things look alright in the vehicle, and making sure to peek back in on your way out. It could be a judicial system that takes a more sensible approach and places a lot of emphasis on preserving the family unit. I personally can think of at least ten situations where it is safer if I leave my kids in the car. For instance, just this week a semi-truck backed into me in a gas station parking lot while I was in the car with my three children. Terrifying. He either didn’t notice or was trying to get away, but I left my kids in the car to make myself visible to the driver. Then, he had to park. He had to park quite a distance away. When he finally exited his vehicle, he was disabled and walked very slowly. It took about 10 minutes to return to the scene of the accident and what was I thinking the whole time? “I sure hope no one calls the cops because I left my kids in the car”. I know, they would have been much better off chasing me through a busy parking lot after an accident and encountering a stranger who may or may not have been angry. I am a very bad mother. If we are at a ball game and it starts to rain, my 3 and 6 year old will ask to go sit in the car, which is visible from the bleachers. That seems perfectly fine to me, but instead of thinking about what is actually best for my children, I have to think about what is best in light of the Nancy Grace do-good squad that is likely to call me in if I allow them a break from the rain. Taking in the groceries when I only have my 3 year old, I will often leave him in the five point harness in the driveway so that I don’t have to worry about him getting into something and hurting himself while I walk back and forth to and from the car 5 or 6 times. When I took kids to daycare it was a no brainer that my infant was safer when it was 30 degrees outside with snow up to my knees buckled in the warm car than they were with me hauling them in an infant carrier on the slippery ice up a set of stairs to the daycare with a toddler gripping my other hand. And remember, it isn’t the amount of time in the car that presents harm to the child. It is dependent on the environment. The parent has to be a reasonable judge of the environment to include the safety of the area, the temperature, the amount of time they will be away, and of course the age and temperament of their individual child. The 99.9% of the time parents elect to leave their children in the car, they are being good judges of the environment and the children are completely safe. 33 children a year,on average, die in hot cars. 77 children a year choke on a hot dog, but I don’t call the cops every time I see a six year old biting into a frank at the ballpark. Most heat stroke victims are infants that are forgotten for many hours by a harried new parent. Children age 4 and under make up NINETY THREE PERCENT of all the children (that is, 93% of 33 per year) that die in hot cars. This is because they are in five point harnesses and are unable to release themselves or to open a door. You might not choose to leave your six year old in the car, but the reality is, that this mother who left a six year old with her three other children was very very very very unlikely to return to an unfortunate heatstroke accident. Now who’s with me? Let’s start throwing every child we see with a hot dog over a chair to administer the Heimlich!

  73. Owen Allen July 30, 2014 at 9:08 pm #

    Yep, keeping kids safe is usually just easy. I wonder if any of the ‘concerned’ passerbys, would break a window, or would they let a kid suffer in case they did something illegal. When you play that out, I think it becomes easy to recognise the drama queens/kings for what they are. I would advise that kind of mind game. It’s a bit of philosophy 101. Keeps it real if it is all about how we act, how it is our business.

  74. Buffy July 30, 2014 at 9:17 pm #

    Yeah Dolly, you wouldn’t insult Warren’s kids, unless they were climbing up the slide when your precious snowflake wanted to slide down…then your kid would crash into his kid, hopefully injuring him, while you laughed on the sidelines.

    Get your stories straight.

  75. Kimberly Herbert July 30, 2014 at 9:29 pm #

    I’m going to disagree with you here. If it is illegal to leave kids in cars then you are an IDIOT to leave a kid in the car.

    I have to ask have you ever been in Georgia or Texas in July and August? I’m in Houston it is 8 pm the sun is going down – the temp is 88 the heat index is 100. I’m pretty far out in suburbia. Closer in with more concrete and glass – air temp and the heat index is higher. Windows down in the car doesn’t stop the magnification of the heat – just slows it a little. This is especially true if the car and its interior are dark. 16 minutes is a torturous amount of time.

    I’ve seen heat exhaustion – it is scary. Especially when it is your adored little sister. She went from having a blast at the state fair – to disorientated, clammy skin, and dizzy in about 15 minutes. Ice packs and water and an hour later she was ok to go back to the motel and sleep for hours. This wasn’t in August – it happened in October.

  76. SOA July 30, 2014 at 9:41 pm #

    I got heat exhaustion in a city near Atlanta a couple weeks ago and I was outside in the open air and even in water at a water park not in a car. So yeah, being in a hot car like that is going to be awful. Some people don’t get how hot the south gets. Because not only do we have heat, we have humidity.

    So even if the windows were down, I think that is pretty harsh to leave them sweltering in that while she was in an AC store. If I leave the hubby and kids in the car in summer I leave the car running with the AC on. Any other way is going to be too hot.

  77. Tamara July 30, 2014 at 9:56 pm #

    SOA – I agree with Donna, it sounds like you don’t really understand addiction. I highly doubt he “loves drugs more than his kids” and “refuses to get clean.” A bit of compassion from the folks around him may actually help him do this. No one likes to be referred to as a no good, kid hating addict, even if it appears to be true. I wonder how long you would last if you had to live his life.

  78. Warren July 30, 2014 at 9:58 pm #

    As I explained to your husband Dirk, in another post, they are two different acts altogether.

    Someone taking pics is just that.

    Having an emotionally and mentally unstable woman, like you, interacting with my kids after being warned not to, will get you one of two things. Arrested or hospitalized.
    I would have you arrested, my bride would probably have me tell the police what hospital she was sending you to.

  79. Tamara July 30, 2014 at 9:58 pm #

    SOA – I agree with Donna, it sounds like you don’t really understand addiction. I highly doubt he “loves drugs more than his kids” and “refuses to get clean.” A bit of compassion from the folks around him may actually help him do this. No one likes to be referred to as a no good, kid hating addict, even if it appears to be true. You said yourself he loves his kids, that’s a step up from not caring at all. I wonder how long you would last if you had to live his life.

  80. Tamara July 30, 2014 at 10:01 pm #

    gah – silly double post, sorry!

  81. SteveS July 30, 2014 at 11:35 pm #

    Warren, I can’t figure out if you are some kind of internet troll, a lunatic, or just some blowhard keyboard commando. I have seen lots of people over the years that say how they will show the cops a thing or two.

    I suppose you may get lucky and sucker punch the first one, but when his/her backup rolls in, things aren’t going to end well. I just can’t take you seriously. You are delusional. Regardless, I hope you don’t go all badass on the cops. We would then miss out on your over-the-top BS.

  82. SKL July 31, 2014 at 2:02 am #

    I agree that they need a better reason to take kids away from their mom. Kids who are jerked around don’t generally fare well. Of course we don’t have all the facts, but the trend toward demonizing moms is disturbing.

    To Dirk, I know some people will call the cops even if they have no good reason to suspect the kids are (or will soon be) in any distress. Some people just want to control other people, and that is how they do it.

    Of course, part of the problem is the bad info / advice out there. Telling people that it is never OK to ever leave a child in a car under any circumstances, to always call the cops if they see a kid in a car.

  83. Tiny tots July 31, 2014 at 7:39 am #

    Thank God, the children are safe.

  84. brian July 31, 2014 at 9:10 am #

    It seems to me if I saw kids in a car and they appeared to be overheated, I would try the car door. If it is locked, then I would simply tug on the door and bounce the hood to engage the car alarm. Hopefully that would summon the parent.

    Problem solved. No cops. No broken windows. No wrath of Warren.

  85. Dirk July 31, 2014 at 9:12 am #

    Warren, Slim Jim would be my first thought too…I assume that is what a cop tries first. Talking about busting the window is just a fun phrase, have you every tried? It is actually kinda hard to do.

    I totally agree and you are totally reasonable about other avenues. You commented that if I tried to bust your kids out of the truck I’d get busted. That sounds reasonable to me too (I mean you said it because it would look like a dude was taking your kids not because you just randomly wanted to dish out some pain).

    In your example if I saw a bunch of kids in car seats with a dog in the truck and everyone seemed happy I might stop for minute or maybe even go up to the house and apologize for being an ass but say I didn’t want to be the guy who did nothing…

  86. Dirk July 31, 2014 at 9:19 am #

    I did see a couple of babies in a car once. The only time I have. This was ween I was a teenager. It was in a strip mall parking lot in front of a pizza place. I had just picked up my food and was walking out and was like what the hell? Are there kids in there. I walked by the car, it was right next to mine, and just looked in the window they seemed ok. I looked around. Dad was in the same pizza shop and was paying for his stuff. I got in my car and he was coming out. I have to admit I might have called the cops. I was a teenager at the time and had a friend with me. We waited in the car like I said until the dad came out, it took like half a minute. But we pretty much had decided if no one was out after a few minutes we would go in and look for the parent. If we had walked up and down the strip mall and not found anyone in the 7 or so stores who came forward? We would have called the cops or at least told the people in the pizza shop that there were some babies just sitting in a car right out front their store so they could watch them or do what was needed. I, and my friend, grew up with the ideas that you don’t leave kids in the car. Same as being told that smoking is bad for you, and just say no to drugs, and that knowing is half the battle, etc. I’ve said it before and I will say it again generational attitudes change…a lot of that is at play here.

  87. go free range! July 31, 2014 at 9:35 am #

    Free Range comments are improving, not a single reference to the windows being “cracked.”

  88. Omer Golan-Joel July 31, 2014 at 9:43 am #

    “Reckless Conduct” is the root of the problem here – NO one was hurt, but an innocent woman gets punished because someone MAY HAVE been hurt. She did not harm anyone – so there is no crime. In a free country, people get punished or rewarded for their deeds, not for what they MIGHT have done. In a fascist dictatorship, on the other hand, the State decides which people are “dangerous to society” and should be placed in “protective custody” because they MIGHT cause harm to someone.

  89. ChicagoDad July 31, 2014 at 9:47 am #

    I have heard from officers in Chicago that every winter there are a few people who call 911 because they are worried that the wild birds outside are too cold. (Bang my head on keyboard). If that is the case, you’ll probably never eliminate 911 calls for kids in a car. You can, though, change how authorities respond to “child in car” calls. Maybe these types of calls should be routed to EMTs rather than squad cars if the dispatcher thinks a response is needed.

  90. Dirk July 31, 2014 at 10:02 am #

    ChicagoDad that is the first thoughtful response I have read. The EMT suggestion and the story about the birds. The EMT suggestion comes with some problems but it is a good one.

  91. Dhewco July 31, 2014 at 10:04 am #

    I would probably search the store the kids are at, first. But, then again, I’m not so busy that I couldn’t take time for that. I’d only call as a last resort or it seemed the kid was lethargic or ultra-pale.

    By the way, some have commented about leaving the car running with the A/C on. Some cities have ordinances that make this illegal. (At least a fine, not sure about jail time). I think Atlanta is one such, but I’m not sure. When I was in Atlanta (Marietta, actually) for insurance training, one of my fellow trainees made the comment about this.

    By the way, could commenters with long posts break them up into paragraphs? Long blocks of texts give me a headache. Thanks. (Sorry, if this seems rude)


  92. Warren July 31, 2014 at 10:43 am #

    For one thing the police around here don’t shoot first and ask questions later, like I read about in a lot of states.

    Secondly, you call bullshit. Come up to Kingston, Son. No BS, I don’t back down from anyone.

    I don’t live in fear like the brave and free americans.

  93. DirtyHooker July 31, 2014 at 11:03 am #

    But these kids aren’t OK. They are physically unharmed, but their mother has been arrested, with all the social baggage that comes with being arrested. The financial toll this takes on their family will likely be enormous, even if the charges are dropped. This will take years for them to sort out.

    I’ll hold off on judgment of the mom, since a lot depends on whether the windows were up or down. Either way, though, not all social issues need to be addressed with a perp walk. Check her record. If she doesn’t have one, give here a warning and send her on her way.

  94. Dirk July 31, 2014 at 11:04 am #

    I wonder how many times this happens a day and the cops just issue a warning or even just help out or even just check on the situation and let it go and tell the “busybodies” they over reacted. Like what happens 99 times out of a 100 or 1 time out of 100?

  95. K2 July 31, 2014 at 12:06 pm #

    Penalties relating to anything having to do with kids are generally harsher than I think they should be from the 18 year-old who has relations with a consensual teen to this parent. Ruining lives should not be the goal.

  96. Gina July 31, 2014 at 1:57 pm #

    Answer my simple question

    If you walked past a car and saw a child or animal in OBVIOUS heat distress, what would you do?

    Easy question.

  97. SteveS July 31, 2014 at 2:15 pm #

    Warren, yes, I do call BS. You just sound ridiculous. I have met dozens of big talkers and they are all the same.

    I never said I was afraid of the cops, though I would say I had a healthy respect of the power of the state. I find it difficult to believe you could assault a police officer in Canada and they are going to just walk away. If they are, then I apologize. If they are going to do like most cops here and just not-so-gently subdue you and charge you with some kind of serious crime, then you are an idiot. You prefer to rot in jail for months or years and be away from your family (and dogs) to prove something that I just can’t see.

    Do you have this: http://store.fourguysguns.com/products/chairborne-ranger-pvc-patch

  98. Warren July 31, 2014 at 3:17 pm #

    O k a y n i c e a n d s l o w.

    Breaking into a car is a last resort, unlike what alot of people are doing these days. And I would have to be damn sure, before doing it. Seeing as how this is the second time I have explained this….Gina try reading and listening more and typing and talking less.

    Never said I would walk away free and clear. And you want to call BS, come to Kingston, do it to my face, or shut the hell up. Shutting up would be much easier on your teeth.
    You want to live life as a coward, that is fine. Do not project your failings onto me or others.

  99. Heather July 31, 2014 at 4:07 pm #

    16 minutes in the car in summer in Atlanta is bad parenting…
    But, probably deserves a parenting class not removal. I felt sick in my car after 5 minutes no AC window down car stationary in the summer as an adult, and if the AC was on, keys were in the ignition with the noise from the car attracting attention.

    I’m very free range (I’m not going to qualify bcause I don’t want to be arrested for something perfectly safe, eep!) but this was definitely a bad choice.

  100. SOA July 31, 2014 at 4:32 pm #

    You don’t know the person I am talking about. His father has paid for him to go to rehab in full multiple times and he either fails to check in, or checks in and then leaves after a day or two. That is not trying to get clean. That is not giving a crap.

    He sees his sister struggling to afford to pay her bills when taking care of his son is really emptying her bank account and leaving her stressed and overwhelmed and he does not give a crap. He is going to keep using and not only using but won’t even try to help out with his son when he happens to be around. She kept sending his son into his room and telling him to interact with him and he kept sending his son back out.

    That is not a loving parent. Free range is about self sufficiency and responsibility. So why are we coddling drug addicts? They are the very opposite of self sufficiency and responsibility.

  101. Warren July 31, 2014 at 4:52 pm #


    Addicts are addicts. By definition “addicted”.

    There is a reason addictions have come to be accepted as an illness. The dependancy on the act or substance one is addicted to is not a choice but biological. Even the sex addicts, gambling or whatever non chemical addicts are biologically dependant on the chemical release in their bodies during the gambling or whatever.

    Good people do awful things under addiction. They may steal from you, impose on you, lie to you, and if you let it get to you, you’ll never be of any help.

  102. Donna July 31, 2014 at 5:12 pm #


    Yes addicts absolutely do bad things to the people they love. They still love those people.

    Addiction is a horrible disease that destroys families. It is still a disease. It is also often masking other untreated diseases – bi-polar, depression, schizophrenia – making it even more difficult to kick as the symptoms of those diseases become more pronounced without the drugs. Treating people as if addiction is a choice that we need to take a hard line against – aka the War on Drugs – has been a complete and utter failure. Everyone involved in the system understands that now; it is only people like you that seem to have difficulty accepting that. What to do about it is a debate, but what we’ve been doing is not working.

  103. SteveS July 31, 2014 at 5:36 pm #

    Warren, I am not about to drive 100’s of miles to meet some keyboard commando that wants to win the internetz. LOL. Are you sure your mom would let you go out of the basement?

  104. SteveS July 31, 2014 at 5:40 pm #

    Warren, I also call BS on your threat. Are you in middle school? Has anyone, anywhere, made some kind of international trip to get in some kind of fight? Pathetic.

  105. SteveS July 31, 2014 at 5:43 pm #

    Warren, how many times have you got into a fight with the cops? None, probably. Just more proof that you are an all talk, bully. Projection??? I am not sure that word means what you think it means.

  106. Gina July 31, 2014 at 5:45 pm #


    A LOT is two (2) words. There is no such word as “alot”.

    And now, I am done with you.

  107. Warren July 31, 2014 at 6:49 pm #

    On duty officers have never given me a reason. Off duty more than a few. But that was just hockey, and nothing personal. As a matter of fact we shared a couple beers and sort of had a mutual admiration for each other’s toughness.

    But seriously, unless you are willing to man up, don’t provoke people. Nothing more useless than a coward, that picks and picks at you.

  108. SteveS July 31, 2014 at 8:19 pm #

    Warren, I agree that off duty is a whole different story.

    Coward. LOL. Awareness is the 1st step in change. I am confident that you will be able to get over your issues.

  109. Puzzled August 1, 2014 at 1:38 am #

    I was working at a carnival recently where an 18 year old decided to splash boiling oil with a spatula, and it splattered on a 20 year old woman. The beverage counter attendant threw cold water on her and she was fine, first degree, no blistering. As a result, they decided not to discipline the kid. I disagreed – he shouldn’t be treated differently because someone else thought quickly and fixed his mess. Similarly, I don’t think you should judge leaving kids in a car by if they’re ok or not.

    Of course, those who cry loudest about kids in cars probably support child-safety locks – the things that made it harder for a 6 year old to open the door. I would never worry about a 6 year old in a car if child safety locks didn’t exist.

    A few years ago, we drowned (no pun intended) in stories about sharks. There were actually less shark attacks that year than average, but also not a lot of other things happening, plus one attack early in the summer was rather spectacular. So now we hear about nothing but kids in cars, which leads people to go crazy about kids in cars. The difference is now is there stuff going on, lots of stuff, but the media doesn’t want to talk about it, so kids in cars is easier to run.

    I just moved in to a new apartment. When I went the day before the move to measure, it was broiling. Seriously. It was at least 10 degrees hotter than outside, and this wasn’t a car, it was an apartment. The next day, with the windows open, it was 10 degrees cooler than outside. Now, with three fans running (no AC) it is about 20 degrees cooler than outside. In fact, I’m pretty cold right now, and its in the 70s. I’m going away next week, and I thought about getting a window AC because I’m leaving the cat here. Then I remembered that my cat sitter comes once a day and will call me if the temperature is out of line, and that AC requires me to close the windows – and if the power goes out, I’ll have a pressure cooker. I prefer fresh air to AC anyway.

    If I see a child passed out or obtunded in a car, I’m not looking for the parents or calling anyone. I’m getting them out, then calling for help. I’ve been in this business long enough to know what serious danger looks like.

  110. Puzzled August 1, 2014 at 7:22 am #


    66 degrees out in this story. Windows down. Of course, DCF (what it’s called in CT) notified.

  111. Nicole 2 August 1, 2014 at 8:39 am #

    Puzzled, those are the stories that annoy me. Assuming the child wasn’t left in the car for a very long period of time (I’m talking hours here) the response is silly.

    What is really funny is riding with a child unrestrained in the car is much more dangerous, yet many states have laws that explicitly state you cannot be charged with child neglect over an unrestrained child. I agree with this, mostly, the exception being people who are chronic offenders (I’m talking 10+ instances despite being provided with a free seat, etc, just willful endangerment). I wonder if we need a similar protocol for ‘small child left in car’- give the parents a ticket, stop treating them like criminals unless they had some sort of intent to harm the kid.

  112. David August 1, 2014 at 9:45 am #

    I agree with the sentiment here. However, most of us are in the middle/upper class and educated demographic and the responses reflect that. However, I work in a area where a lot of people are not educated, responsible, caring and/or just plain stupid. I have seen plenty of imbeciles who routinely put their kids at risk – hot cars, little kids in the front seat not always belted, obesity, etc.

    To use judgement and cut slack to those who might have had a brain fart and not to do so with others who are glaringly stupid and uncaring invites a discrimination charge. We are all equal under the law. Now, arresting and jailing? Yes that might be over the top. Being fined is not.

    Regarding safety, when I was left in the car as a kid, we had hand cranked windows we could open at will. Modern cars require a key. It may or may not be a good idea to leave the keys in the ignition while shopping, thus most do not. Hence the cars become ovens. Just in my region we have enough kids admitted to the ER, some die anyway, because of dumbass parents. Thus I am not so Free-Rangey regarding this particular issue.

  113. common sense August 1, 2014 at 10:18 am #

    you know why the aliens landed in new jersey in “war of the worlds”? it’s because there’s no intelligent life there.

  114. JKP August 1, 2014 at 3:52 pm #

    Gary, I was just about to post the same story, but you beat me to it!

    You know things have gone too far when things like this happen:
    EMT’s smash open car to save “lifeless” baby left inside, only to discover that it was a DOLL!

    Thankfully the city paid to fix the damage.

    But I was appalled at some of the comments I read from readers who think it was the car owners’ fault and they should have to pay, because they shouldn’t have left a doll in their car in the first place!

  115. Puzzled August 1, 2014 at 4:14 pm #

    Well, I could understand mistaking a lifelike doll for a lifeless baby. However, I don’t understand why taxpayers should pay for this mistake.

    Anyway, I’d like to thank David for demonstrating how freedom is lost – not in some grand gesture, but in the insidious assumption that it’s only for me, not for those ‘other people.’

  116. Puzzled August 1, 2014 at 4:19 pm #

    On the doll article – I think I’m more disturbed by the comments saying that it’s good the window was smashed because the owner was (assumed to be, for some reason) white.

    Also, the article says there’s been a startling increase in children left in hot cars this year. There is no citation. Does anyone know if this is true, or if there’s been a startling increase in reporting about it, or if we’ve just totally redefined “left in cars” to include things like, well, this OP and so see an increase?

  117. E August 1, 2014 at 4:59 pm #

    @Puzzled…because they were the ones that made the “mistake”?

  118. E August 1, 2014 at 5:01 pm #

    Put more clearly, the police dept (and by extension the tax payers) because they made the mistake in the line of duty. The individual didn’t cause the damage.

    I don’t have an issue with it, or my tax money, being used for things like that.

  119. JKP August 1, 2014 at 6:08 pm #

    Maybe Puzzled meant that the original person who called in the report of a baby left in a car should be the one to pay for the damage.

    Either way, I don’t think the owner of the car should have to pay for it.

  120. Beth August 2, 2014 at 3:03 pm #

    I can’t even see or find comments on the Hoboken story. I wonder if they were removed.