A “Chilling New Portrait” of Child Predators? Or a Craven Old Way to Scare Us Sh*tless?

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Trying not to scream about this article in the Toronto Star, “Child Abduction and Murder Paint a Chilling New Portrait.” As reader Frankie wrote:

Just the WORST kind of scaremongering!!  They use these huge scary numbers but the bottom line is that in all of Canada, coast to coast, there have been an average of THREE kidnappings a year over the past 50 years.  THREE.  Seems they had to go back 50 years to get enough data to even do a statistical analysis.  More pedestrians were killed just in Toronto last month alone.  This piece makes me so angry!

While you’re reading the piece, keep asking yourself: Who benefits from a study like this? (Boldface, mine.)

Child abduction and murder data paint chilling new portrait

by Robert Cribb

One hundred and fifty-five children have been abducted and murdered in Canada since 1970, most of them young girls snatched near their homes and killed within a few hours by predators with criminal records, according to a survey by the Canadian Centre for Child Protection.

The findings, which reveal an unprecedented look at child abduction and murder in Canada, are based on public records, court decisions and media reports on cases dating back nearly 50 years.

The study excludes cases where the person responsible (or believed to be responsible) was a parent of the child or close relative.

Of course! Why study the far more common scenario and possibly come up with a way to save MORE kids, when a more exciting scenario beckons?

These cases involve strangers or acquaintances who target children as young as 2, plan an approach, abduct and kill them, according to the preliminary study, obtained exclusively by the Toronto Star. The full study is to be released later this year.

“We were inspired to do this difficult analysis with the idea that what one single child’s story may not be able say, the collective voice of many, could,” says Lianna McDonald, executive director of the Winnipeg-based Centre for Child Protection. “Something that was very impactful was the heinous nature of the crimes committed against the children.

“The degree of violence and brutality is horrifying.”

This data question how well children are protected by Canada’s justice system.

No they don’t. Canada is #8 in a list of Ssafest Places to Live in the world.

Fifty-five per cent of offenders had a prior criminal record and 29 per cent of those were convicted of a prior violent or sexual offence against a child.

Lesley Parrott’s daughter, Alison, was abducted and murdered in Toronto in 1986.

Alison was 11 and lured to Varsity Stadium for a photo shoot. Her body was found two days later near the Humber River.

Francis Carl Roy, who was convicted of Alison’s murder, had been on parole for raping two teenage girls.

“I do think there is real opportunity here for good impact on policies and understanding on the part of families, educators, police, parole boards and judges,” says Parrott. “The things that jump out at me is the parole situation, the luring was there, the murder happening within hours. All the way through there are things that speak to our situation.”

The situation being what? Unstated. Just gobbledygook.

Roy remains in prison.

Here is a partial story — by the numbers — of what the study reveals:

Who are the offenders?

  • 92 per cent of Canada’s child murderers are men.
  • 68 per cent of them are Caucasian in their 20s (the average age is 26 with nearly a quarter under the age of 18).
  • 55 per cent of offenders had a criminal record when the offence was committed. At least 33 per cent of those had committed a violent or sexual offence against a child.
  • 22 per cent of the offenders were either on parole, probation or out on bail.
And on and on it goes. When really — the point is that in the very worst and rarest of circumstances, people murder. And some of them actually did something before. The fact that literally tens of thousands of people who also committed offenses do NOT go on to murder strangers does not matter. This just allows the public to hate and fear anyone who ever served time.
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Why does the study ignore the vastly more common scenario — children abused by people they know?
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Because that does not garner hits, donations, or government money.
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Sorry to be so blunt, but this is scare mongering masked as ‘important” information. The only thing important is to remember how easy it is to create fear under the guise of virtue. – L

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Canada! I'm coming for your children! (Drawing by JuanEmanuel ) http://juanemanuel777.deviantart.com/art/THE-BOOGEYMAN-569709964

Canada! I’m coming for your children! Or at least your donations.  (Drawing by JuanEmanuel )

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129 Responses to A “Chilling New Portrait” of Child Predators? Or a Craven Old Way to Scare Us Sh*tless?

  1. BL May 27, 2016 at 9:39 am #

    So, in a nation of 35 million people, some of them are bad people.

    This is not news.

  2. Theresa May 27, 2016 at 9:43 am #

    I think panicking about Bogey men is silly. But so is boys being forced to use the boys bathroom and whining it’s not good enough for them.

  3. ViciousD May 27, 2016 at 9:45 am #

    As a person who is sexually and romantically and socially attracted to minors – wait, put down your pitchforks ladies – may I just say something?

    Most of us – pedophiles, or hebephiles, or ephebophiles – aren’t evil.

    And we wish nobody any harm, or be coercive or manipulative – what have you.

    And I am sorry if it upsets you that I say this, but I truly believe it is usefull to mention it.

    Let me put a point on it: People who abuse others, have more problems than being attracted to them. They are just bad apples, that’s it.

  4. Dienne May 27, 2016 at 9:59 am #

    Theresa – maybe you should stick to the topic at hand and not comment on something you don’t understand.

  5. Neil M May 27, 2016 at 10:43 am #

    So if I read this right, 3-4 kids a year are victims of the sort of crime on which this survey focuses. Obviously, no one wants even one child a year victimized in this (or any other) way, but in a nation of 30 million people, these numbers are small. I think perspective is key.

  6. Theresa May 27, 2016 at 10:54 am #

    I understand that we are talking about the jerks that hurt folks.that is one of the reasons people want those with boy bodies to use the boys bathroom.

  7. ViciousD May 27, 2016 at 11:09 am #

    To @Theresa the cunt-brain, no I don’t want people who have been born into the wrong gender, to be forced to use whichever lavatory YOUR shitty brain demands of them, I want them to have the freedom of choice to make their own decisions.

    And furthermore, for your general information and that of shitty people like you, yes I have friends who have been born into the wrong gender. XXY-chimeras, Klein-Field-syndroms, victims of abuse and so on and so forth.

    In brief, please go fuck yourself.

  8. Theresa May 27, 2016 at 11:54 am #

    PS we can keep this polite. I shouldn’t have worry about improper behavior from the other sex in the bathroom. And if you want your child to be with the other sex before they are adults fine for you.

  9. ViciousD May 27, 2016 at 12:02 pm #

    Why on earth would you presume improper behaviour from others (and does that say anything about you)?

    Let me give you a page from my book, lady.

    I am a forty-ish male, and yes I have had thoughts about doing wrong towards others, because sexual attraction is kind of powerfull and yes unfortunately it messes with your mind.

    But, I have never done anything wrong. Why?
    Because guess what, most people are _nice_.

    And I think you should reflect upon that, because the other alternative is convincing people that they can be bad, when they don’t have to be.

  10. Alexander May 27, 2016 at 12:16 pm #

    This article has nothing to do with transgender bathrooms. Why bring it up?

    I don’t think statistics are necessarily fear mongering. Educated people can reasonably infer that even though some newspaper article says that 92% of child murderers in Canada are men, it does not follow that 92% of men are child murderers.

    But then again I don’t suppose this type of journalism is aimed at reasonable readers.

  11. pentamom May 27, 2016 at 12:48 pm #

    Can we please ban the guy who speaks for pedophiles and uses horrendous language? Thanks.

  12. Warren May 27, 2016 at 12:51 pm #

    Vicious

    You have more problems than your mental health.

    Anyone that uses the C word has no place in here. And on a personal note, using that word in my presence can be hazardous to your well being.

    Apologize or leave.

  13. Vaughan Evans May 27, 2016 at 12:57 pm #

    I think the training of a child should be when”and how” to “go to bat” for an adult who is falsely accused.
    One man (named Paul)aged about 67-in Canada, tells me this story.
    This man belonged to a Boys” Club in Penticton(a small city near Vancouver.) One “brat” falsely accused the leader of obscene behavior
    The police were called.
    Paul(and the other boys) TRIED and TRIED and TRIED to convince the police-that the boy was “making it up.”
    But the police did not listen to the boys(In those days, children were treated very foolishly and condescendingly They were expected to be “seen and not heard.”
    The leader’s reputation was so tarnished that he had to “get out of town” (In those days, Penticton was a small town-of only about 10,000. Gossip travels quickly in a small town where everybody knows everybody.)
    We have paid a high price-for the old rule “Childfren were to be seen and not heard.”

    -There should be a law, where a child(acting in good faith) “goes to bat”-if he feels that an adult-or an older child needs protection.
    The child should be told that any information thagt he gives to a public servant-“policeman, parents, or a teacher should be “privileged information.”

  14. Dean May 27, 2016 at 12:59 pm #

    Three a year is too many, but scaremongering does nobody any good.

  15. Vaughan Evans May 27, 2016 at 1:00 pm #

    I would like to promote family dances.
    In Vancouver, we used to have family dances-where childless adults-were welcomed(The reason it went defunct was that no one would volunteer to organize it,.
    Some parents would have misgivings-about childless adults participating.
    When I was 11-in 1960- I belonged to a square dance group. I was mostly children and teens-but there were a few adults.
    My parents had no misgivings-about adults’ participation in the square dance group.

  16. Vicki Bradley May 27, 2016 at 1:17 pm #

    I am disappointed that the Toronto Star has published this article, as it’s usually a relatively well-balanced, unbiased newspaper. Like Lenore says, to what end is passing on this information going to be of benefit to anyone, other than make helicopter parents even more helicopter-y.

    Re: Vicious D and his potty mouth, I totally agree with Pentamom and Warren. I don’t believe in censorship but I sincerely hope he doesn’t become a regular commenter on this website. At times, other commenters can be somewhat rude or abrasive, but there is absolutely no need for that type of profanity.

  17. NY Mom May 27, 2016 at 1:32 pm #

    Slow news day story.

    Crime rates continue to fall. But crime sells. So pretend there is crime when there isn’t any.
    Hype, spin and mind control.
    Selling news is more important than telling the truth.
    So what else is new?

  18. ViciousD May 27, 2016 at 1:41 pm #

    Gosh, none of you fucktards have comprehended Graham’s hierarchy of argumentation?

    Anyway, yeah your shitty condemnatory attitudes have made me this antagonistic, so STFU.

  19. ViciousD May 27, 2016 at 1:43 pm #

    Also: https://masterchan.org/candy/12

  20. Vicki Bradley May 27, 2016 at 1:45 pm #

    Seriously Vicious D, no one wants to hear your sick, inane, immature point of view, so please, please go away. Trolling doesn’t become you.

  21. Paul May 27, 2016 at 1:47 pm #

    Trolin, trollin, trollin, we’ve got somebody trollin.

    Well Lenore does lean on the libertarian side of things, so I guess why she is not very quick with a banhammer.

  22. Alexander May 27, 2016 at 1:48 pm #

    –Vicious

    You have more problems than your mental health.

    Anyone that uses the C word has no place in here. And on a personal note, using that word in my presence can be hazardous to your well being.

    Apologize or leave.—

    Look out, we got a tough guy over here! Warren, this is meant to help you, you sound like an idiot, and no one thinks your threats mean anything.

    That said, I agree this Vicious guy has serious mental health issues. But those in glass houses and all.

  23. James Pollock May 27, 2016 at 1:54 pm #

    “I shouldn’t have worry about improper behavior from the other sex in the bathroom.”

    You shouldn’t have to worry about improper behavior from EITHER sex in the bathroom.

    Transgendered people have been using the bathroom that fits their outward presentation, but not their anatomy, for decades. Approximately how often have you been inconvenienced by this?

  24. lollipoplover May 27, 2016 at 1:54 pm #

    “I do think there is real opportunity here for good impact on policies and understanding on the part of families, educators, police, parole boards and judges,” says Parrott.

    Agreed.

    The corrupt family law system does not work in the best interests of children. It is a self serving money making racket that destroys lives. There is a real opportunity to make changes to protect children and fix this system. Spend money and resources where these crimes are MOST likely to happen- inside the child’s home.

    80% of the time, the abuser is KNOWN to the child. Abuse is a learned behavior and the waves of this crime are repeated for future generations. We need to protect our children better…from their own family members.
    Start teaching domestic violence awareness to very young students. The 3 R’s should be Recognize, Resist, and Report. Equip kids with knowledge and tools to break the cycle of abuse.

    Stop pandering to the urban myth/boogeyman fears of dark alleys, the ice cream man, and lost dog searchers. It’s the man (or woman) walking through the kitchen door that’s hurting and abusing our youth. Fix the broken system that keeps putting innocent children back in abusive homes based on *highest bidder* custody agreements and without regard to the physical and mental health of innocent children. Try to figure out why someone is out on the streets after 2 rapes and why this crime doesn’t have stiffer sentences…for the children’s sake.

  25. Jim Collins May 27, 2016 at 2:31 pm #

    Obviously the employees of the Canadian Centre for Child Protection benefit from a study like this. They must be looking for a funding increase.

    They remind me of the Center for Missing and Exploited Children. My friend’s two daughters were listed on their site for years, even though they were not missing and they were not being exploited. He was awarded sole custody and took them away from an abusive mother. As a matter of fact I am attending one’s wedding next month.

  26. Marie May 27, 2016 at 2:33 pm #

    ViciousD does bring up an important point: the vast majority of pedophiles do NOT commit crimes against children–or against anyone–because like the rest of us, they don’t want to hurt others. In a fight against fear-mongers, that fact is good to know, and good to point out. The word pedophile is misused more often than not.

  27. EricS May 27, 2016 at 3:13 pm #

    @Vicky: They are a newspaper company. And we all know newspapers are becoming the way of dinosaurs. So they have to pump up sales some how. No different than the “click and bait” tactics of online media, and social media sites. Whatever, and however they can make profit, at the cost of everything and everyone else. Sometimes, capitalism sucks when greed is the motivator.

  28. Lenore Skenazy May 27, 2016 at 3:51 pm #

    Hi. It’s Lenore herself who cannot get to her computer (locked in a friend’s room). So please forgive me for not handling the comments till later. L

  29. Warren May 27, 2016 at 4:13 pm #

    Alexander

    Tell you what, call a woman that in my presence and you will find out what tough really is.

    Little man I have never had a problem with tuning up punks like him and never will. Some people don’t have a problem with confrontation even in a violent form.

  30. Jason May 27, 2016 at 4:29 pm #

    Assuming the article is quoted correctly, it first says:

    “Fifty-five per cent of offenders had a prior criminal record and 29 per cent of those were convicted of a prior violent or sexual offence against a child.”

    And later says:

    “55 per cent of offenders had a criminal record when the offence was committed. At least 33 per cent of those had committed a violent or sexual offence against a child.”

    Which is it, I wonder?

    Also, to contradict Lenore in her third-to-final paragraph, this study seems to only ignore murders committed by family members, not all people known to the child victims. The quoted article does say “strangers or acquaintances”.

    I’m also wondering why she’s locked in a friend’s room…

  31. James Pollock May 27, 2016 at 4:47 pm #

    ““Fifty-five per cent of offenders had a prior criminal record and 29 per cent of those were convicted of a prior violent or sexual offence against a child.”
    And later says:
    “55 per cent of offenders had a criminal record when the offence was committed. At least 33 per cent of those had committed a violent or sexual offence against a child.”
    Which is it, I wonder?”

    There’s a subtle difference between the two, so they could both be right. The first was “were convicted”, and the second one says “had committed”. I’d expect that second number to be a bit higher. Sometimes there’s no conviction because of evidentiary issues, or the statute of limitations has run, or the charges are plea-bargained away.

  32. Derek W Logue of OnceFallen.com May 27, 2016 at 5:13 pm #

    D’oh Canada! What’s that aboot, eh?

    It was only a matter of time before our Predator Panic ™ rubbed off on our taciturn neighbors to the North. After all, the only time we ever think of them is when our criminals flee prosecution. Or when we have pancakes in need of maple syrup.

  33. sexhysteria May 27, 2016 at 5:17 pm #

    The vast majority of children who die of violence are victims of their own parents’ abuse or neglect.

  34. Anne May 27, 2016 at 5:35 pm #

    I don’t think 150 in 50 years is such a horrible record. Bad things happen to people. This fact isn’t new. Have I become desensitized? Don’t think so. What are we expecting? Zero? That’s not real life.

  35. Lois Marshall May 27, 2016 at 6:06 pm #

    It has been mentioned a couple of times in here, but I think it bears saying and stressing again. The actual numbers of those who commit those horrible acts against children AND are strangers in Canada is tiny: 3 or 4 per year, out of a total population of about 30 million.
    I don’t know the number of total former felons or people who have gone to jail in the past for a violent crime against a child in Canada. We can, however, make a sensible prediction that the 3 or 4 such crimes per year represent a very tiny percentage of the totals of both those groups.
    So, why use the specified percentages? Because it is so much more easy to panic people if you cherry-pick the information and how it is presented. And a panicked populace is much easier to persuade that “something must be done!”

  36. Jay May 27, 2016 at 6:08 pm #

    “Fifty-five per cent of offenders had a prior criminal record and 29 per cent of those were convicted of a prior violent or sexual offence against a child.”

    And let me guess: That’s going to be used to argue that people should be locked up for life for even the slightest sex related offence.
    People are going to see the “55%” figure and then without thinking much about it will assume that locking up such people for long times will have a 55% chance of preventing a murder.

    They miss that while murderers are likely to have previous convictions, that doesn’t mean that everyone who has a previous conviction is likely to become a murderer. At least not anywhere in that order of magnitude (a somewhat elevated risk may exist.)

  37. Theresa May 27, 2016 at 6:22 pm #

    I am glad that you can treat the other sex with respect but some people never get that. Some people treat others like the ones in story treat others. That is why I’m not happy about boys in the girls room.

  38. James Pollock May 27, 2016 at 6:33 pm #

    “I am glad that you can treat the other sex with respect but some people never get that.”

    “That is why I’m not happy about boys in the girls room.”

    Because you can’t treat them with respect, apparently.

  39. Theresa May 27, 2016 at 6:46 pm #

    Because I don’t think boys should be in the same bathroom as girls? Try seeing from other people view.

  40. James Pollock May 27, 2016 at 7:32 pm #

    “Try seeing from other people view.”

    Transgender women are not “boys”. They’re women who happen to have been born with boy parts. Some of them are intersex, and were born with lady parts, too.

    So, there are two people asking for my support. One of them just wants to be left alone to go the bathroom and wash their hands afterward. The other wants to tell someone else what they can, and can’t do and/or where they can, and can’t go.

    If you don’t want to be in the bathroom with a transgender individual, walk out. There. You both got what you wanted.

    Keep in mind that in your system, the transgender men are now relegated back to the bathroom with you. They look like men, dress like men, and act like men (because the ARE men). Or are they to be excluded, as well?

  41. Theresa May 27, 2016 at 8:33 pm #

    If they’s were whining about something else besides the bathroom I be glad to support them but the bathroom they were given isn’t enough! Maybe I am silly but I was raise to boy parts means you are not a girl. Now if you were one those rare folks born to both I would assume the doctors chose wrong and you will just have to fix it and meantime live with what you got.. Life not fair get over it!

  42. Travis May 27, 2016 at 9:42 pm #

    “But so is boys being forced to use the boys bathroom”
    “Because I don’t think boys should be in the same bathroom as girls”

    Leaving aside the transgender issue, because I know I won’t change your mind with just a couple of comments anyway, this view of yours is rather contradictory. You don’t want boys to “be forced” to use the men’s room, but you also say boys shouldn’t use the same restroom as girls. So where should these boys go to the bathroom, then? Would you prefer if they went in the bushes?

  43. James Pollock May 27, 2016 at 10:08 pm #

    “Life not fair get over it!”

    Or, and this is just a suggestion, mind you… perhaps YOU should get over it?

    (By “it”, I mean the fact that transgendered girls are girls.)
    Maybe consider that they already suffer much more than you do, and offer a bit of empathy for a fellow human being. And ABSOLUTELY do this before lecturing anyone else to “try seeing from someone else’s view.”)

    At present, you just sound AMAZINGLY self-centered.

  44. Jason May 27, 2016 at 10:54 pm #

    @James – “There’s a subtle difference between the two, so they could both be right…”

    Yep, you’re absolutely right. I failed at reading comprehension today!

  45. Theresa May 27, 2016 at 11:02 pm #

    I was saying that boys don’t want to go to boy’s room unless forced to. And some of them don’t know what they are whether boy or girl so until they can pick should we just get rid of the sexs.

  46. Travis May 27, 2016 at 11:18 pm #

    “I was saying that boys don’t want to go to boy’s room unless forced to. And some of them don’t know what they are whether boy or girl so until they can pick should we just get rid of the sexs.”

    Boys always want to go to the men’s room. It’s embarrassing when your mom keeps dragging you to the ladies’ room until she decides you’re ready to go to the bathroom on your own. So no, in this, you are definitely wrong. Your writing is a bit confusing, though, so… were you talking about trans girls even in your first post? Because that brings up the fact that trans girls are not boys, they’re girls, so yes, the men’s room wouldn’t be enough for them. They should use the ladies’ room because they are girls.

    And, again, contradictory. What do you mean they don’t know if they are a boy or a girl? They do know, unless, you know, they’re agender, in which case it could be a little confusing since everyone tells them they have to be either one or the other… But that’s an entirely different issue.

    And I don’t know about you, but I didn’t ‘pick’ to be a man, I just was, and since you are against trans people, apparently, you probably never ‘picked’ to be a woman, either, you just were. These kids know what they /are/, their body is just different to what they know to be true.

    If we do as you suggest, and ‘get rid’ of genders, we would get rid of gendered bathrooms, too. Which would just end up being what you’re arguing against in the first place: boys and girls using the same restroom. I do not understand your argument.

  47. John S May 27, 2016 at 11:34 pm #

    To Vaughan Evans, many thanks for your first post. I’ve urged changes along those very lines. Being falsely accused of molestation is a strong incentive to see reforms made.
    As to the article–I saw the percentages bandied about fairly easily, as happens very often in this country. But, how about translating the percentages into raw, and accurate, numbers? Especially since the article referenced having to go back 50 or so years–why not do this?
    Why not ask the defenders of the status quo to translate percentages of recidivism rates, more easily known as re-offense rates? I must request one qualifier be used–peer-reviewed studies!

  48. sigh May 28, 2016 at 12:31 am #

    Hard to decide what’s nuttier, this article, or the comment thread.

    But I think the article wins.

    I saw this published in the news here and thought, “Oh my God, that’s a very creative way to make tiny numbers look big.” Even I, as a convert to the cause, had to really think about the actual math and how many “stranger” (or acquaintance!) abductions there are in this country each year, on average, and how many of them are 16-year-olds….

    What a terrible thing to do to parents, who are already scared to death. Awful, awful, awful.

  49. James Pollock May 28, 2016 at 12:45 am #

    Theresa, this is for you, but anyone else can follow along, too.

    This is an exercise in empathy.

    I would like you to imagine that, starting right now, and continuing on for the rest of your life, literally everyone you interact with in any way, believes that you are a man. They tell you this in every way… verbally, non-verbally, in the way they talk about you and to you. Now… you know that you are a woman. You’ve always been a woman, and you expect to always be a woman… but you can’t get anyone to agree with you. They expect you to dress like a man, act like a man, even though you know that you are not.

    Bathrooms are only a small part of it, but since you’ve got to go to the bathroom every day, it’s a constant reminder. You know you belong in the ladies’, but if you don’t go to the men’s people are outraged and look at you, talk to you, and about you as if you were some kind of sexual pervert. You find yourself trying to find a time to go when there won’t be anyone there, because you just cannot shake the idea that you are in the wrong one (because you ARE!) You’ll start cutting way back on your fluid intake, just to cut down the number of times you’ll have to pee when you are in a public place.

    After a while, you’ll start to adopt the dress of a man, just to fit in. You’ll try to find “men’s” hobbies that interest you, or at least that you an fake an interest in, just to feel a little bit normal. It probably won’t work, and you won’t be fooling anyone. They won’t know specifically what the problem is, but they’ll be able to tell that there is something distinctly “off” about you. You’ll feel increasingly isolated, unable to act like yourself, to BE yourself, but unable to pretend to be what everyone else expects from you, either. You’ll probably be depressed, at times bordering on suicidal, because you JUST. CANNOT. FIT. IN.

    Finally, you’ll reach a point where you don’t care anymore, and you can’t live the lie. No matter how many people tell you that you are a man, you know that you are not and you’ll stop trying to be one. Nobody understands. People who don’t know you will call you a sex pervert, a child rapist, and worse. They’ll shun you, because they don’t understand you. Your only escape is at home, but probably even your own family doesn’t understand. They’ll still love you, but you know they’re always thinking “what is wrong with that boy?”

    If you’re lucky, you might find a couple of friends who are open-minded enough to accept you the way you are. When you tell them that you’re a woman, they say “OK”. It’s tentative, at first, because they don’t REALLY believe it, but over time they do. They see that while it’s certainly nothing that they would choose, that anyone would choose, you actually are happy when you live as a woman (because you ARE a woman) and aren’t fighting to fit into the role society expects from you. They stop fighting it, even take your side when you are challenged.

    You might even get enough people to accept that you want to live as a woman to try doing it full-time. You may or may not be able to “pass” as a woman, but most people think it’s none of their business and ignore it. (They’re right. It IS none of their business.) You’ve been avoiding men’s rooms for some time now… You know which businesses have single-occupancy bathrooms, and use those when you can, and you avoid going to public restrooms if there’s no single-occupancy bathroom available. But now… you switch. You know you are a woman on the inside. You dress, and act, maybe even look like a woman on the outside. You probably go years and years without anyone noticing, or, if they did notice, they weren’t troubled enough to say anything.

    Eventually, though, it happens… you run into someone who thinks it is their business to check which bathroom you “belong” in. When they decide that you are in the “wrong” one, they make a scene, very possibly it will escalate to violence. Even some people who would never consider violence an appropriate way to settle a difference of opinion might think it’s OK, since, after all… you started it, by going into the “wrong” bathroom. (Of course, violence would be even MORE likely had you gone into the “right” bathroom, dressed as you dress now).

    Now… along comes some idiot politician, who thinks it’s important to protect “potty purity”. Transgendered persons have been using the bathroom that fits the way they feel, act, and dress for decades, but suddenly it’s vitally important that they no longer do this, for reasons that seem emotional rather than rational, and are based on fear of something that might happen, rather than on what does happen.

    Your only hope is that there are enough people, in important positions of government, who see things as they are rather than imagining all the parade of horribles (the children will all be raped, think of the children!) and are willing to protect your civil rights.

    Do you want people to react with compassion and empathy towards you, to understand that you are who you are and you can’t help being who and what you are, and that you haven’t hurt anyone and don’t have any desire to?

    Or should people react against you, because their fear all they need to put you severely at risk for harassment, beating, rape, or even murder?

  50. ViciousD May 28, 2016 at 7:11 am #

    You know when you know your empire is going to shit?
    When people start focusing on irrelevant issues.

  51. Paul May 28, 2016 at 7:44 am #

    I wonder what’s more fantastical: the idea that there’s a child predator at everyone’s door, or that there are roving bands of women checking on genitalia in restrooms to make sure people truly belong there.

  52. ViciousD May 28, 2016 at 8:30 am #

    @James Pollock: “You’ll probably be depressed, at times bordering on suicidal, because you JUST. CANNOT. FIT. IN.”

    Must resist urge to make extremely distastefull joke.

    Anyway, had a conversation with a pensioned and extremely seasoned police officer, a couple of years back.
    He shared the story of a minor-attracted person (we just like to call ourselves “MAPs” because that includes nepio-, pedo-, hebe-, and ephebo-philes), and that person experienced an episode of mental instability due to shitty life experiences, and was confused about what kind of a person he was and felt that he couldn’t hold on but was obligated to offend.

    So, he lured a ten-year-old neighbourhood girl into his bedroom, and proceeded to try and have sex with her.

    He couldn’t do it.

    However, next, he panicked, and killed the girl because he was afraid she would tell on him.

    In that series of circumstances, four aspects played a part.
    1. Him being minor-attracted
    2. Him having shitty life circumstances
    3. Him thinking he was an abuser
    4. Him panicking because he feared the consequences of being found out for a minor-attracted person

    Now, some of these aspects are changeable, and some of them are not, but if we really want to think of the children, we need to focus away from the hatred, and especially, STOP trying to convince people that they are evil and that they HAVE to commit abuse.

    For what, to satisfy your desire to call them monsters?

    That’s neither constructive, nor reflective of reality.

    Seriously, we cannot ALL be the monsters you want us to be.

  53. ViciousD May 28, 2016 at 10:09 am #

    Oh and you know what the REAL tragic part is?

    The real tragedy is when shit like this: http://www.freerangekids.com/a-chilling-new-portrait-of-child-predators-or-a-craven-old-way-to-scare-us-shtless/, actually ends up causing the death of minors.

    Because when you are faced with the choice between either the rest of your entire life being fucked up, or killing a minor to get away with it, guess what, some not-so-bright percentage of people, greater than zero percent, WILL chose killing the minor.

    And at some point, that whole cop-retards spiel about preventative effects from harsh punishment, starts sounding like so much emptiness and useless moral panic simply to feel good about oneself from thinking “we have a problem something must be done, okay we’ve done something now let’s pretend is is working”.

  54. Theresa May 28, 2016 at 11:23 am #

    Last I checked the way to see boy or girl was by what it in your pants. If you are not happy with that change it. I sure if the boys room was not able to be used for some reason girls can make exception just like the boys could if the girls wasn’t available.

  55. ViciousD May 28, 2016 at 12:08 pm #

    Guess what Theresa, you are just plain ignorant, simple as that.

    Pick up a book sometime in your life, and no darling, not the novella kind.

    Here’s one on one medical ethicist’s fight to help intersex-children NOT be genitally mutilated, in America: http://alicedreger.com/gmf

    Or just Wikipedia, if you are not all that much into “reading” and difficult tasks such as breathing without swallowing your own tongue: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_intersex_surgery

  56. James Pollock May 28, 2016 at 12:18 pm #

    “I wonder what’s more fantastical: the idea that there’s a child predator at everyone’s door, or that there are roving bands of women checking on genitalia in restrooms to make sure people truly belong there.”

    This “roving band” is most likely all or mostly menfolk.

    https://www.google.com/#q=trans+beating+bathroom

  57. James Pollock May 28, 2016 at 12:20 pm #

    “Last I checked the way to see boy or girl was by what it in your pants.”

    Things have changed since the 1950’s. For example, we have genetic testing now.

  58. ViciousD May 28, 2016 at 12:40 pm #

    @James Pollock: Not for Klinefelter-syndrome.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-1346474/Klinefelters-syndrome-Adele-Markham-fought-20-years-woman.html

    Or just people with ambigious genitals.

    https://anunnakiray.com/educational-video-links/

    And here you go, Theresa, a trove of information for your general education, and those who are as ignorant as you: https://anunnakiray.com/educational-video-links/

    No need to thank me.

    Because guess what?
    As opposed to you, I understand that not all people are born for your perverse enjoyment in judging, and condemning, just for being different from you.

    So go right ahead and keep on being stupid, ignorant, and intolerant all you like, the future will gladly forget that you and people like you ever tarnished the face of this earth by walking upon it.

  59. ViciousD May 28, 2016 at 12:41 pm #

    I got upset. One of those links was meant to be this: http://intersex.shadowreport.org/public/2016-CRC-UK-NGO-Zwischengeschlecht-Intersex-IGM_v2.pdf

    Yeah, see, people in america still genitally mutilate intersex children, depriving them of the right to chose themselves, to decide over their own body and their own gender identity.

  60. ViciousD May 28, 2016 at 1:18 pm #

    @warren: Sorry I didn’t get back to you sooner, I had a dick to jerk off a little, you see.

    But, here’s a little something I dug up, just for you: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0azhi_w8AD0

    Enjoy.

  61. James Pollock May 28, 2016 at 1:42 pm #

    “@James Pollock: Not for Klinefelter-syndrome.”

    We’ve had genetic testing for Klinefelter’s Syndrome since the 1950’s. It isn’t routinely performed, unless there’s a reason to look for it, but the genetic cause of Klinefelter’s has been known for 70 years or so, and it’s readily detectable.

  62. James Pollock May 28, 2016 at 1:51 pm #

    ViciousD.. may I call you Mr. D? I have two pieces of advice for you.

    First, tone it down. You don’t win anyone over with belligerence. Speaking of which…

    Second, I see you’ve come to Warren’s attention. He’s a blowhard of the first order; you don’t find many people so PROUD of the fact that they’re a bully. He’s very fond of claiming “you wouldn’t say that to my face” but if you answer “sure I would. Tell me where to find you and I’ll show you”, he suddenly remembers that he’s very shy and besides, he’s busy that day.

    The advice is… ignore him totally. He’ll keep trying to troll you, and it frustrates him no end when it doesn’t work.

    But mostly that first one.

  63. ViciousD May 28, 2016 at 2:10 pm #

    “It isn’t routinely performed, unless there’s a reason to look for it, but the genetic cause of Klinefelter’s has been known for 70 years or so, and it’s readily detectable.”

    Yes, technically speaking, but in the real world it isn’t acknowledged so much as a medical condition that warrants support for being corrected by sex-change.

    It’s one of those border-cases where the profession is slow to change, because they are reluctant to intervene when they can’t really tell either way which gender you “really” are.

    And which causes people quite a bit distress, actually.

    Which isn’t fair, in my opinion, people shouldn’t be judged for what they are, but only for what they chose to do.
    I believe you can understand where I’m coming from, on that one.

    Fortunately, Malta became the first country in the world to outlaw genital “correctional” surgery last year, which is one happy note and that the US should take note of.

    Especially now that the APA has finally backed down from recommending genital mutilation of boys, as it is no longer financed over the health-care industry’s budget.

  64. ViciousD May 28, 2016 at 2:24 pm #

    “First, tone it down. You don’t win anyone over with belligerence.”

    I don’t enjoy much meta-discussions, and call me weird if you like, but I think a real discussion should help rile people up a little bit so that they can find excuses to show their real colors and in brief, reveal that they are not so much interested in the discussion but rather to paint their opponent in a bad light.

    So I make that easy for them; and some people get it, that haters mostly just bring hatred to the table, whereas I actually fucking back up my claims with references to specifics.

    Or, I try. In between being caustic.

    That said, I do take personal offense to being painted with the same brush as child molesters, which inevitably happen at some point in the debate, simply by people trying to make such a claim stick, because the mass media is their only source of information and they have never heard of somebody being minor attracted and yet not doing anything wrong.

    So I kind of try to circumvent that, somewhat self-rightously / self-defensively, by pre-emptying that shit-storm before it even starts, Doug Stanhope-style: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RycwYRcm3Lc

    Well, that was the meta-debate, rant hopefully over.

  65. John May 28, 2016 at 2:27 pm #

    @Theresa:

    Theresa, I am with you 100%. Now I don’t have the time nor the energy to get into a peeing contest over this but it is absolutely ludicrous to believe that a biological boy who wants to be a girl should be able to shower naked in the girl’s locker room in front of all the girls and vice versa! The same can be said for men in the women’s locker room and vice versa. I’m willing to compromise on the restroom although I still think it’s crazy, but an open air dressing room and shower is a whole other matter. Can we please have a little common sense here and respect the privacy of people who don’t want to experience that?

    @ViciousD:

    I have no problem with you commenting here but try having a little class and clean up your language a bit and quit attacking people who have a different opinion than yours. Oh, and please spare us the gory and graphic details of what you do in your spare time.

  66. ViciousD May 28, 2016 at 2:38 pm #

    @John, hey, here’s an interesting fact for you: People in nudist communities, actually claim that they have less rape, and less child molestation, than in the general population.

    Why?
    Well, perhaps because they don’t connect nudity with sexuality, just being natural, and maybe also some desensitivity exposure, there.

    Then again, this is very culturally relative: America is unfortunately still influenced by the Victorian-age obsession with sex as immoral / bad / depriving.

    I’m not the best person to talk about that, because I will be perceived as biased, so let me have somebody else do that for me: America is genitally mutilating babies because a sexhater claimed it would stop them from masturbating.

    http://www.collegehumor.com/video/6966989/the-real-reason-youre-circumcised

  67. James Pollock May 28, 2016 at 3:41 pm #

    “it is absolutely ludicrous to believe that a biological boy who wants to be a girl should be able to shower naked in the girl’s locker room in front of all the girls and vice versa!”

    First off, the biology isn’t as simple as you seem to imagine.

    Second, there’s a simple correction for people who don’t wish to experience this. Be somewhere else.

    I comes down to whether or not you have a tolerance for someone who says

    *I* have a problem with this, therefore, *YOU* have to do (fill in the blank).

    And whether you buy into the notion that transgender boys are REALLY boys and transgender girls are REALLY girls. (Entirely leaving out the problem of people who are intersex.)

    You can REALLY see the stigma against mental illness at work in the discussion of this subject (transgender is not mental illness… it’s biology… but people don’t know that and so… since it’s all in the person’s head, it’s ok to discriminate wildly against them, right?)

    Empathy. The key is empathy. You know what they call people incapable of empathy? Sociopaths.

  68. ViciousD May 28, 2016 at 4:06 pm #

    “Empathy. The key is empathy. You know what they call people incapable of empathy? Sociopaths.”

    On a side-note to that, there are differences to how societies treat “people at risk” (such as me), which are more productive / constructive as other societies’ approaches.

    ONE: Do not go out of your way to try and convince people that they are doomed to offend.
    TWO: Make it known that you don’t wish them any harm, for a mere attraction.

    Why? Because this helps reduce sexual abuse, and gives people “a way out”.
    If a pedophile / MAP trusts you, it is simply more likely that he – or she – will be willing to admit that not all situations feel safe, for him / her.

    And that REDUCES RISK.

    Which is the better option, really, because you can’t jest simply wish people out of existence just because they are pervs.

  69. Mark May 28, 2016 at 4:55 pm #

    Terrific critique as usual, Lenore!

    >”“We were inspired to do this difficult analysis with the idea that what one single child’s story may not be able say, the collective voice of many, could,” says Lianna McDonald, executive director of the Winnipeg-based Centre for Child Protection. “Something that was very impactful was the heinous nature of the crimes committed against the children.”

    LM insists they undertook the study hoping to demonstrate 1+1 will =>2. How? We read the “heinous” nature of Allison’s murder, which is atypical even of this select minority in key respects. Who else? What “collective voice”? Who imagines an abduction and murder of any child as less than heinous?

    And yes:: How is this “our” situation? How “new”? Why illustration with this horror movie mask w/ what strike me as unfair, misleading, racial overtones?

    What “good impact on policies and understanding”? I see no policy proposals and none constructive occur to me. Perhaps more draconian incarceration, supervision, of prior violent sex offenders, but as you say, we have no data to put these rare events in context with cases without heinous outcomes.

  70. ViciousD May 28, 2016 at 5:26 pm #

    “What ‘good impact on policies and understanding’? I see no policy proposals and none constructive occur to me.”

    The current leading approach is Prevention Project Dunkelfeld, which is a German initiative that offers free help, group-therapy, no worries of being reported to the police (even for active offenders), and also access to anti-libidos for those who wish it (not to be confused with chemical castration).

    An approach that seems humane, and also lowers the bar for those who would otherwise be afraid of seeking out mental therapy from professionals.

    If we really wish to stop abuse, then we must be prepared to accept some hard choices, and be prepared to make some deals with the devil.

  71. hineata May 28, 2016 at 6:01 pm #

    How in the world did this descend into a discussion about who uses what toilet? But yes, Theresa, I agree with you entirely. .if you have a penis, use the male bathroom or shower room etc. If you have a vagina, use the female ones. How difficult can it possibly be? Must we really resort to genetic testing just to use the loos?

  72. James Pollock May 28, 2016 at 6:12 pm #

    “if you have a penis, use the male bathroom or shower room etc. If you have a vagina, use the female ones. How difficult can it possibly be?”

    Pretty difficult. When the transgender women go into the men’s room, they tend to get harassed and assaulted for doing so. For some reason, they don’t find that to be trivial. When the transgender men go into the ladies’, that freaks people out, too.

    How long has it been since we had an article that pointed out how stupid “EEK! A MAN!” is?

  73. Donald May 28, 2016 at 7:15 pm #

    When I was 4 years old, my uncle robbed my house. He was a heroine addict and needed money. He raided my piggy bank. We only found out who robbed us ten years later when he confessed at rehab. His heroine addiction was so strong that in his mind, nothing else existed. Nothing would stay between him and his fix.

    I question the morals of the scaremongers but I argue that that’s what we should be focusing on. The scaremongers are the supplier. What about the millions of drama junkies that demand this crap? As long as we pin all of the blame on the supplier, nothing will change.

    My example of a heroine addict is extreme, however drama junkies are not blameless. We can’t say, that we are unable to resist to watch high drama news or get sucked into the clickbait.

  74. Donald May 28, 2016 at 7:19 pm #

    He took many things but my piggy bank was one of them. His addiction overridden his need for dignity and he was not above stealing from his nephew.

  75. Donald May 28, 2016 at 7:22 pm #

    This is about brain chemistry and why being scared is so fun

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oetVvR5RQUs

  76. Papilio May 28, 2016 at 7:29 pm #

    I can’t believe it, but the moment has come: I agree with James.

    Ladies: imagine you’re in the ladies’ restroom washing your hands and these two people walk in:
    http://b0.img.mobypicture.com/fc9cbc729acddc37c4de4d6a34eaf864_view.jpg
    http://statischecontent.nl/img/tweederdevideo/9477a61f-dca3-46ad-92cc-76469403c7d4.jpg

    Which one, according to you, belongs in the men’s room instead?

    Really?

  77. Donald May 28, 2016 at 7:32 pm #

    and another. This is more about video game addiction. However drama almost the same thing. I bet that you didn’t know that Nancy Grace was a dealer.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFAPy6XjP9A

  78. James Pollock May 28, 2016 at 7:46 pm #

    “I can’t believe it, but the moment has come: I agree with James.”

    Welcome to the club. Meetings are Thursday at 7. BYOB.

  79. Donald May 29, 2016 at 2:12 am #

    If a vampire bites a zombie, will the zombie turn into a vampire or will the vampire turn into a zombie? More important, will the vampire/zombie use the mens or ladies bathroom?

  80. ViciousD May 29, 2016 at 2:15 am #

    Can I just say that we should all sympathize with Donald’s piggybank, because that is important?

    Thank you.

    It’s nice that somebody can keep the focus on important things in our lives, when the original topic was child molesters killing children because the penalties for having consensual sex with a seventeen year old “child” and coking up and gang-raping a six-year old until she fucking splits and dies moaning and weeping, are one and the same.

    Oh wait, no you just get ten thousand life-sentences instead of one.
    AND get shat on massively in jail, and your life destroyed should you ever get out.
    No wonder americans chose to kill, just out of fear.

    And congratulations, that is the society that your retardedness creates, and had I been any less compassionate a person than I am, I would even have said that you deserve it.

    Which may actually be true.

    Your kids don’t, however.
    They haven’t grown up to become as retarded as you are.
    Yet.

    But good luck, keep on focusing on irrelevant issues, make them fear strangers and learn to identify people as “bad” or “subhuman”, just for being different, your entire fucking nation was built upon exploiting african slaves and wage-slaves, after all, why should you be any different today?

  81. ViciousD May 29, 2016 at 2:48 am #

    The problem with anglo-saxon cultures in general, is that you tend towards the polarized, the edge-cases, the worst of the worst instead of looking at people on a spectrum.

    And in addition, blame somebody who does wrong, on them being bad as if human beings existed in a vacuum and were completely 100% rational actors in control of everything at all time.

    Or just because you haven’t grasped that the preventative effect of harsh punishment is limited, or more likely, that you are so ignorant and stupid that you do not care that you are actually acting counter-productively in a sociological / criminological sense, because lo and behold, punishing people is the only thing that helps get your rocks off because sex is “sinfull” and “bad” and you are told not to be perverted – which we all are – so you turn to spanking people (figuratively speaking) by way of law.

    And there is something to be said for the public’s interest in hearing about sexual crimes, in that regard.
    They fucking lap it up like it was fresh horseshit.
    All the sordid details, all the gore, it sells like no other kind of scandal.

    The recent congressional report on torture carried out by the US forces?
    “Gee, we seem to have accidentally deleted that by a mistake weesa soo sorry *snicker*”.
    A consensual sexual trust between a horny fifteen-year-old who knew _exactly_ what she was getting into, and a twenty-something celebrity?
    The epitome of evil child molestation.

  82. Donald May 29, 2016 at 2:57 am #

    ViciousD

    My vampire/zombie comment was not directed at you. I thought that the bathroom comment was way off the topic so I joked by bringing up a way off topic comment that was ridiculous.

  83. ViciousD May 29, 2016 at 4:22 am #

    @Donald: I don’t share your sense of humor (or quite understand how that was supposed to be funny), but at the very least I can share the sentiment that bathroom-comments are silly.

    To wit, this has never been an issue before, but now that AmeriKKKa is in its death-throes financially, it has suddenly become relevant to distract the masses so that they don’t question the insanity in having a presidential candidate who actually claims that the us debt ceiling being broken time and again isn’t a problem because the US can just keep printing money?

    Yeah nice try, pick up Orlov’s “Societies that Collapse” some time, read it and weep as he lays out to you geopolitical balances that do NOT in any way, shape, or form, sway in the US’ favour as the petro-dollars come flying back to you and your entire cracking-fuckup starts running out of gas (literally).

    China isn’t going to bail you out forever, and some changes happen so slowly you don’t notice them, and others happen so fast they don’t notice YOU.

    In the meantime, keep focusing on things that you think you can do something about, instead of admitting that the real dangers are things that you are powerless to influence.

    At least that’s better than thinking about how fucked up your future is and how bad it’s going to be for your kids, and popping opoids and benzo’s just to get through your inhuman minimum-wage day.

    Enjoy your capitalist jesus-fundamentals republic experiment in nation-building, every country you have invaded and colonized so far has turned out fucked up, so do feel free to do the same to yours.

  84. Donna May 29, 2016 at 11:04 am #

    In Samoan culture, there is a 3rd gender called the fa’afafine. They are men who live their lives as women. Since there are no hormones or sex change operations in the islands, they are usually very evident to be biologically male without needing to see genitals. While I assume that the reality of life is a lot more complicated, fa’afas are largely fully integrated and accepted by society. There is no overt, institutional discrimination. Despite it being an extremely religious culture, there are no bible thumpers outraged that they exist or any attempt to marginalize them. They can be found at every level of industry and government openly existing as women.

    And they use the women’s restroom. Nobody bats an eye. Nobody is uncomfortable. Nobody thinks it is weird. Nobody is trying to get them ousted into the men’s room. There is also no rampant sexual assault in bathrooms. In fact, I don’t know of a single incident of molestation or rape happening in any public bathroom on the island the entire time I was there. No “perverts” pretending to be fa’afas so that they can sneak into the women’s room to molest children or rape women. It is simply a non-issue.

  85. ViciousD May 29, 2016 at 11:54 am #

    Shall we mention history, as well?
    http://ancientpeoples.tumblr.com/post/51068743901/roman-bathroom-habits-the-romans-were-not-shy

    Yeah, there is nothing sexual or offensive about going to the bathroom, and if you think perverts are going too break into your bathroom-stall or jerk off in the neighbouring stall then I suggest you pick up a hobby and try to relax a little.

    Go for a walk, don’t listen so much to the weird voices in your head telling you that Elvis is coming back from Mars to save the human race and you have to kill 1000 people to be crowned the king of Denmark, and generally speaking, try to seek the advice of mental health professionals and / or go to a nudist beach and simply experience that people of all genders can get along without rampant rape breaking out simply due to you being in their presence or because you love Jeebus a weeee bit too much.

  86. pentamom May 29, 2016 at 3:48 pm #

    ” When the transgender women go into the men’s room, they tend to get harassed and assaulted for doing so.”

    Pretend I’m stupid. Or if you have a low opinion of me, you don’t have to pretend.

    How does anyone know, if people are discreet?

  87. James Pollock May 29, 2016 at 4:10 pm #

    ”’When the transgender women go into the men’s room, they tend to get harassed and assaulted for doing so.’

    Pretend I’m stupid. Or if you have a low opinion of me, you don’t have to pretend.
    How does anyone know, if people are discreet?”

    A transgender woman acts like, dresses like, and looks like a woman. When a person who acts like, dresses like, and looks like a woman, walks into the men’s room… they stand out.

    On the other hand, when a transgender woman walks into the ladies’ room (with all the other people who act like, dress like, and look like women) nobody notices.

    Which is why, for decades now, transgender women have been using public ladies’ rooms, and why a law that forces them to switch to the men’s room is a bad idea.

    It’s not that you are stupid. It’s not even that I think you are stupid, because I do not. It’s that you have so few interactions with transgendered people, you didn’t realize what was happening when it happened. There’s a lot of that, so you’re hardly alone.

  88. James Pollock May 29, 2016 at 4:18 pm #

    “Yeah, there is nothing sexual or offensive about going to the bathroom, and if you think perverts are going too break into your bathroom-stall or jerk off in the neighbouring stall then I suggest you pick up a hobby and try to relax a little.”

    There are cases of bathroom rapes. But the people who committed them didn’t bother to dress up for the occasion. They just pushed their way in. If they aren’t going to respect the “no raping!” law, they’re not going to stop because it’s now double illegal, once for the rape and once for just being in the bathroom.

    Say it with me now.
    People who go into the bathroom to pee and wash their hands afterwards should be left alone to pee and wash their hands afterwards. People who go into the bathroom to rape should be resisted with violence, then tried, convicted, and imprisoned. But these are not interchangeable groups of people.

  89. SteveS May 29, 2016 at 4:20 pm #

    As to the article in the OP, the media has always used sensationalism to sell stories. People shouldn’t be surprised. An article about chilling child addictions and murders is going to generate a hell of a lot more traffic than an article on how safe Canada is, for the most part. The same holds true for lobbying and legislation. If you are trying to push an agenda, these kinds of stories really get people riled up and willing to call and demand that someone do something.

  90. Viscious May 29, 2016 at 6:05 pm #

    @pentamum One of my online friends is a young trans-person, who is affected by these non-sensical bathroom distractions. Yes she has tits, and looks cute in a myspace angle, but she has a bit of a stubble and isn’t 100% convincing.

    What would you do?
    Have her go hide under a rock until you no longer feel uncomfortable?
    I’m friends with her because I respect her, and accept her.
    And yes, she knows I’m a perv, but also understands that doesn’t make a practical difference unless you are actually doing something wrong.

    Maybe that’s a thought, try to accept others even though you don’t feel 100% comfortable with them?

  91. David (Dhewco) May 29, 2016 at 6:52 pm #

    Honestly, I don’t care about the bathroom question. I don’t look at people in the bathroom…not even to nod. I walk straight to the stupid urinal or stall, do what I came to do, and then the sinks/dryer and out the door. Unless they were loud/obnoxious or drawing attention to themselves, I wouldn’t even notice a trans next to me. If I did, I wouldn’t acknowledge it.

  92. James Pollock May 29, 2016 at 7:08 pm #

    “Honestly, I don’t care about the bathroom question. I don’t look at people in the bathroom”

    This is where that empathy thing comes in.
    This isn’t a problem that affects me in any way (for the same reason as you… if I’m in the bathroom, it’s because I’ve gotta pee.) As far as I know, there are no trans people in my circle of friends or family (not that I’ve made inquiry).

    But.
    they exist
    they are affected by this
    badly
    they’re people
    who already suffer a significant degree of social isolation because of their condition/status.

    So when someone wants to take another kick at them… it offends me.

  93. Donald May 29, 2016 at 7:17 pm #

    If you are a company and want to sell your product, add the word ‘safety’ to it. People will pay more attention to your advert if you do. The phrase ,’Safety’ is an attention magnet.

    15 years ago, finding proof of WMD in Iraq was on the political agenda. if you wanted funding for your government department or wanted a promotion then you find ways to prove that Iraq was planning a chemical attack.

    If you want viewers to tune into your network, buy your newspaper, or click onto your article, then tailor it to stir up the most emotions possible.

    This pattern is obvious. However I don’t believe that we are powerless slaves to our own emotions. I don’t buy into it that, “I can’t resist getting sucked into the hype. Besides I’m only one person. If I do resist then it won’t make any difference”.

    The brain releases hormones such as dopamine, serotonin, oxytocin, and endorphins. An overuse of these can result in addiction. This is why so many people can’t get enough of reading (and talking) about social injustice, outrage, fear, and sex. This is why I compared this to a heroine addict.

    This addiction to our own chemicals can result in not being able to think straight. ViciousD is a good example of this.

  94. ViciousD May 30, 2016 at 1:45 am #

    @Donald: I’m not sure what you are on about now, but you are kind of making an awful mess out of everything that humans for some (quite composite, and in many cases totally harmless) reasons chose to do – reading is comparable to heroin, for example?

    Either you have a serious problem explaining your thoughts to others – as well as infantile references to quite mundane things that happened to you in your life, such as your piggyback being stolen when you were four, and your quite, shall we just say, “quirky” sense of humor?

    Please, if you want to critizice somebody, make it about them and be a tad specific, or else you are revealing that you are just calling them out to get a rise out of them because YOU can’t help enjoying the (useless to everybody else) attention.

    We call that trolling, BTW.

    Oh and to make this at least a bit relevant, your insistence on seeing things as “addictive” and “being in control” of people, which actually is just a variation on an old and pervasive tenent of judeo-christian thinking – which in itself is quite addictive – that teaches people to see themselves satisfying their desires, lusts, and pleasure themselves, as being “sinfull” and thus “harmfull” – often not backed up by any attempts at empirical and falsifiable reasoning what so ever beyond “well it is wrong because it is wrong because if you like it you keep doing it and doing something that you like is wrong because reasons”.

    Me, I enjoy a great many things, that I have in common with the vast majority of “normal” people on this planet.

    I enjoy talking to others that have different views than mine, and who can at least rub two sticks together to try and explain themselves and back their reasons up beyond “that’s how I feel about it because mommy and daddy taught me that that is how I should feel / I get my opinions on ethics from an ancient desert-nomad jewish genocidal genitally mutilating bloodgod / *drools*”.

    You don’t currently give off the impression of having too many sticks in your faggot, and I suspect they don’t light up very well either.

    Anyway, I am mostly done here, what Lenore laid out quite clearly early on, is the main take-away message:
    Such an attempt at gathering data from so few cases (and from so varied backgrounds) is nothing but an exercise in academic ignorance about statistical significance.
    Throw in something about correlation != causation (and how so many US studies are irreproducible to boot) and you are pretty firmly off to la-la-land and this is why in other parts of the world, it’s a running joke in academic circles to say “american studies show”.

    Good times, chuckles all around, and people keep on ignoring how US’ (and other anglo-saxon) rags think they are fooling anyone with “outrage world” click-bait articles (http://www.slate.com/articles/double_x/doublex/2010/07/outrage_world.html) that have absolutely zero bearing on society in general (beyond “hey maybe prison messes up people we should put more people in prison for longer *ASFDG* *DROOLS*) and certainly should not be abused by attention-horny politicians to cause a ruckus about in order to gain moral high land and be seen as “something-should-be-done”-doers (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PezlFNTGWv4).

    Oh and for your general information yes I watched the recent debate – if you can call it that – in Geneva where former INTERPOL-head Mike Moran played the slapstick-rutine of police in drilling up support for them being given funds and power, by referring to the worst case he had ever seen, of a young person being abused and overdosing on cocaine.
    No sociological studies on how abusers are marginalized men who have often been treated horribly shitty by women themselves – who GET AWAY WITH IT BECAUSE THEY ARE WOMEN BY THE WAY – no reference to demographics, cultural, and socio-economic factors increasing rates of abuse, no interest in talking about which criminological approaches reduces recidivism, no talk about what psychologists understand about people who commit abuse, no; Just a straight up gory-details the likes of which I shall not share with you here because if it made the lady sitting next to Mr. Moran almost dry-heave a little because she *knew* what being cocked up does to the body, sexually…

    The approach of condemning people AFTER they have done something wrong, instead of helping them BEFORE something bad happens, is nothing but an anglo-saxon expression of jesus-freak condemnation: Either people are good and go to heaven, or they are bad and go to hell, and then we shall enjoy hurting them because it makes us feel better about our own imagined sins and slights.

    Oh and guess what, Einsteins, if you are talking about people being addicted, then let’s bring up what’s written on page 31 of the BEDIT manual of the Dunkelfeld-project: A description of one man seeking the counselling of the project’s therapists, because he was in a sexual relationship with an eight-year-old girl. He knew that was wrong, but he couldn’t stop himself, and the therapists in the program just could not deal with that anymore so they told him that they had to prioritize and spend of their time with clients that had more will to change.
    They do NOT have unlimited time, after all, which is one part of the reasons why sex-therapists often get saddled with convicted offenders who are forcibly put on anti-androgens, rather than people coming in from the street and telling them “hey my niece is fascinated by my penis and can’t stop jerking me off can you help me figure out how to make that stop in a way that is neither negative to me, her, her parents or my future social standing in the community also I am pretty lonely and feel marginalized and ostracized by a lot of my age-group peers because I don’t take myself as seriously or behave as artificially lofty as they do?”.

    That’s addiction to you, @Donald: Caused by a lack of good alternatives.

    Go read Rat Park sometime, and realize all that the media is telling you, is fucked up bullshit that does not in any way stand up to close scrutiny and most of the things you know that you haven’t researched yourself, is therefore wrong: http://www.stuartmcmillen.com/comics_en/rat-park/

  95. Donald May 30, 2016 at 4:29 am #

    @ ViciousD
    I’m impressed. You sound more civil than you did on your first few post where you used the words cunt brain, go fuck yourself, fucktards, and shitty condemnatory attitudes.

    You hate social injustice as we all do. I’ll tell you what causes it. It comes from anyone with an attitude of, “These problems are an outrage and anyone that doesn’t agree with my way of thinking about how to solve them is an asshole! The world would be a better place if everybody saw things as I do.”

    I agree with you that intolerance of others is an outrage. Your friend shouldn’t have to suffer this social injustice. However, you’re displaying the same intolerance that’s causing these problems in the first place! You are doing exactly what you hate about others. However you’re not alone. There are millions of people that are just as narrow minded. That’s why we have these problems. This is why your friend is suffering. This is why there is so much social injustice!

    @ everybody else
    Sorry for the language.

  96. Viscious May 30, 2016 at 4:51 am #

    Nah, catering to incompetent nincompoops demands for having their deeply flawed and directly empirically provable false claims, respected as much as the truth, is NOT reasonable.

    Quite the opposite, doing so would legitimize them, and no, global warming “sceptics” do neiter deserve the same airtime as climatologists both because they are in the minority but mostly because they really don’t have a case that stands up to rational review by the scientific method.

    You can whine and moan about “mah opinions” all you like, but guess what, that isn’t an argument.
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=sGArqoF0TpQ

    See also the classical paradox of tolerance of intolerance in a debate.

    Also, to further expand, I may well have a few opinions of my own that I don’t share even if they are provably correct, because guess what, doing so would simply be pissing in the wind: Pointless

  97. ViciousD May 30, 2016 at 6:15 am #

    Or maybe I just misread you.
    Anyway, this is getting kind of long in the tooth, so thanks, but I don’t really have anything more to contribute at this point. At least not anything that should be posted on a site such as this.

  98. Steve May 31, 2016 at 11:57 am #

    Wow, the LBGT agenda subverts pretty much everything!

  99. James Pollock May 31, 2016 at 12:11 pm #

    “the LBGT agenda subverts pretty much everything!”

    If you see human decency as “subversion”, I guess that’s true.

  100. ViciousD May 31, 2016 at 12:21 pm #

    Eh.
    @Steve: You are a weak troll.

    First, “the LGBT agenda” consists of nothing but promoting acceptance of people who are different.
    Which is a humanistic and caring goal.

    Second, no, there is no connection between pedophiles and LGBT-people beyond the sporadic individual acknowledgment that it is unfair to be judged just for being different when you have NOT done anything wrong.

    In fact, had you had any insight into LGBT(*x*) issues what so ever, you would have quickly caught up on the fact that quite a number of pedos are “pissed off” towards that movement for having “thrown them under the bus” forty-ish years ago, so.

    Please don’t try trolling. You are so bad at it, it is cringeworthy.

  101. Steve May 31, 2016 at 12:27 pm #

    ‘Subverting’ because this article had nothing to do with the LBGT agenda and yet its become pretty much about that.

    Please take your, perfectly valid and legitimate, LBGT rights concerns to a forum or topic which is actually about that subject.

    Thanks

  102. ViciousD May 31, 2016 at 12:37 pm #

    I think “Steve” is perchance a wee bit too sensitive about LGBT-issues, that he reacts more to them, than he would react to me, who is a self-professed pervert who can stand up for himself and argue coherently?

    Yeah, Steve, maybe you should try looking into “she-male” porn, just to see if that is something for you, and not waste your – and everybody else’s – time on condemning people for no rational, specific, coherent reason that you can put together what-so-ever beyond “mah feels”?

  103. Steve May 31, 2016 at 2:55 pm #

    I’ll just throw this out there:
    http://aristocratsofthesoul.com/complete-guide-to-dealing-with-social-justice-warriors-sjws/

    This is hard to understand, but one important thing to remember when using rhetoric is that actual facts are irrelevant: “Rhetoric is all about what emotions you trigger in the other person.” This is why SJWs will shriek insults at you to try to intimidate you, insults which often make no logical sense in the context of the discussion. The basic rule for engaging with SJWs is what they try to do to you: “If you can make the other person feel small or angry, you are winning at SJW rhetoric.”

    Following this convoluted “logic,” SJWs will accuse you of being mad or upset—that’s their way of claiming to win the argument.

    You guys are just using empty rhetoric and pseudo-dialectical arguments and trying to belittle people who believe differently to you.

    This article was about child protection and fearmongering. I guess you SJW’s know all about fearmongering.

    You don’t make me feel small or offended by your comments, I know what you are up to and what you are trying to achieve. It won’t work.

    There are appropriate forums for the topics you want to discuss but you have derailed a discussion in this forum to fit your own SJW agenda. Its what you do, its how you operate. You don’t really have any choice. You probably can’t even think logically or rationally about these topics that you feel so strongly about.

    I am really sorry for you, it must be really hard for you living like this. Because:

    It’s important to throw everything out the window you’d consider honorable or reasonable when “debating” with SJWs. In fact, Day says, “resorting to straight-up name-calling, the more ridiculous the better, is often the fastest and most efficient way to get through the conversational process with an SJW.” When they call you racist, bigot, Nazi, or sexist, hit them back twice as hard. Even resorting to calling men “creepy” or “stalker,” or women “psycho” or “ugly,” will work according to Day. Remember, the content doesn’t matter because “SJWs communicate in competitive emotion.” And don’t worry about hurting feelings or the ignoble practice of hurling insults around—SJWs do it, and they don’t care.

    you are so terribly emotionally vulnerable. Thats why you think your tactics will work on other people; you imagine that they are as emotionally vulnerable as you are. So you use the same approach you fear yourself; emotional attack. And you feel so strongly, are so overwhelmed by your feelings, that you cannot use actual logic or reasoning.

    My son is only 3 years old yet he is more emotionally mature than any of you SJW’s.

    I pity you.

  104. ViciousD May 31, 2016 at 4:02 pm #

    Yeah, and you didn’t accomplish anything but “talking about how we are talking about things”.

    You could have provided arguments, but nah. Not your forte.

  105. Steve May 31, 2016 at 4:22 pm #

    But you aren’t interested in arguments, only emotions. Your name-calling and insults demonstrate that.

    I’m here because I get some useful and interesting ideas about how to raise my son right.

    Why are you here?

  106. Alexander May 31, 2016 at 4:23 pm #

    @Warren: Alexander

    Tell you what, call a woman that in my presence and you will find out what tough really is.

    Little man I have never had a problem with tuning up punks like him and never will. Some people don’t have a problem with confrontation even in a violent form.”

    Lol. You’re making my point. Go white knight some more you flaccid moron.

  107. ViciousD May 31, 2016 at 4:32 pm #

    @Steve: I’m here because I am clearly one of those guys you would be afraid of.
    And, more importantly, because I have perspectives about that, that are usefull enough for you to consider that they have not been deleted.

    Perhaps you did not read them, in your eagerness to spout your own opinions.

  108. ViciousD May 31, 2016 at 4:40 pm #

    Now let me just try and be at least a bit sharing, in the hopes of being a little bit emphatical, and you are free to take it as you wish.

    When I was seven, I fell in love with a seven year old girl.
    When I was 17, I fell in love with a six year old girl.
    When I was 38, I fell in love with an eight year old girl.

    And I have never done anything the slightest wrong, thank you very much.
    And if there is anything I would have wanted to have changed, it is that: To be at least as interested in adult women, as I am interested in tweens.

    But, same as getting a toilet made out of solid gold, that is just one of those absurd wishes that just aren’t going to come through.

    So, it sucks to be me, at least in some parts.
    But it’s not so important, because I have an otherwise okay life, and most importantly of all, I am not an idiot, a dullard, or completely friendless (I’m just picky).

  109. Steve May 31, 2016 at 5:01 pm #

    @ViciousD why would I be afraid of you? Why would you even think that? You are pitiable and very sad. I’m really genuinely sorry for you.

  110. ViciousD May 31, 2016 at 5:14 pm #

    @Steve: “why would I be afraid of you? Why would you even think that? You are pitiable and very sad. I’m really genuinely sorry for you.”

    Well gosh, thank you, it is so heartwarming these days to find somebody who really empathise, and understand my position in detail enough to… well no, actually you don’t sympathize at all, nor understand, do you?

    Thanks for the attempt. Come again.

  111. James Pollock June 1, 2016 at 2:00 am #

    “Please take your, perfectly valid and legitimate, LBGT rights concerns to a forum or topic which is actually about that subject.
    Thanks”

    Please fold it in half 7-ways, then then shove it up whichever orifice is least pleasant for you.

    Thanks.

  112. James Pollock June 1, 2016 at 2:02 am #

    “You guys are just using empty rhetoric and pseudo-dialectical arguments and trying to belittle people who believe differently to you.”

    Ow. The irony hurts. Too. Much. Irony.

  113. James Pollock June 1, 2016 at 2:04 am #

    “My son is only 3 years old yet he is more emotionally mature than any of you SJW’s.”

    “But you aren’t interested in arguments, only emotions. Your name-calling and insults demonstrate that.”

    Ow. Ow, ow, ow.

  114. James Pollock June 1, 2016 at 2:06 am #

    “I’m here because I get some useful and interesting ideas about how to raise my son right.”

    How does ranting about “SJWs” accomplish this goal, Steve?

  115. ViciousD June 1, 2016 at 7:49 am #

    Oh and for everybody’s information, here’s something you can do if you are fearfull: Smart Up.

    For one, give your kids mobile phones (with tracker apps) that they can carry around with them and tell them to just say that they want to take a picture of THEMSELVES if a strange man approaches them.

    Why? For the simple reason that if that stranger gets riled a little, the child can then say “I’m not sure if you are safe, mister”.

  116. John June 1, 2016 at 9:30 am #

    On a different topic, but which should be of immediate concern to all free-rangers, it is outrageous that there is a petition with over 138,000 signatures to charge with child neglect and other crimes the mother of the child who slipped into the gorilla enclosure at the Cincinnati Zoo, leading tragically to the shooting and killing of the gorilla Harambe. Obviously the only people at “fault” in this case are the zoo officials who designed an enclosure that a 5-year-old could slip into.

  117. ViciousD June 1, 2016 at 9:54 am #

    I do not think a world that would be absolutely idiot-proof’ed to any five-year-olds, is a world that would be very enjoyable to adults.

  118. Steve June 1, 2016 at 10:59 am #

    @James Pollock I’m sorry, SJW’s are such easy targets, they just can’t help but respond to the most meaningless drivel that triggers their fixation.

    Which is why, as soon as someone mentioned transgender toilet issues the whole thread went down the toilet really really fast. Go back and read again and see how this unfolded. Its ridiculous. Not everyone in the world has any interest in the US fixation on transgender toilet issues. Just get on with life.

  119. Donald June 1, 2016 at 5:43 pm #

    I’m on the fence on this one.

    I’m a believer that we need to world proof the child instead of childproof the world. However because of the way parenting has changed over the decade, (better and worse) some 4 year olds are not mature enough to cope with a zoo that was designed to where some maturity is needed. While some safety restrictions are good, it also means that parents are not allowed to expose their children to ‘life’ that would enable them to learn maturity. 4 year olds certainly can’t learn the level of maturity that 1970’s 4 year olds could obtain.

    I certainly do not pin the blame on the parents or the designer of the zoo.

  120. Donald June 1, 2016 at 5:50 pm #

    oops sorry

    I meant to post this on the gorilla page and not the SJW, transgender, vampire, toilet, and fear mongering page.

  121. James Pollock June 1, 2016 at 11:38 pm #

    “SJW’s are such easy targets, they just can’t help but respond to the most meaningless drivel that triggers their fixation.”

    While people like yourself, of course, refrain from meaningless drivel.

    Hint: Use of the term “SJW” in any non-ironic sense gets you moved instantly to the “this is not a person whose opinions should be taken seriously list”.

  122. TruthBTold June 2, 2016 at 12:53 am #

    Mark Foley

    Dennis Hastert

    Bill Clinton

    Be sure to look towards your own Government when you’re worried about child-predators!

  123. ViciousD June 2, 2016 at 9:06 am #

    Well, counterhint @James: Any person who reacts to a mere word, is somebody who probably has issues with distinguishing between their own objective and subjective opinions.

    And, agendas.

  124. James Pollock June 2, 2016 at 11:27 am #

    “Any person who reacts to a mere word, is somebody who probably has issues with distinguishing between their own objective and subjective opinions.”

    Nonsense. Words are signals. Some of the signalling is intentional, and some not. Some signals suggest that a person is overwrought and overcome by the discussion… when Godwin’s Law is invoked, for example. But some handful of words are such that using them immidiately suggests that the person issuing them is not interested in debate, not capable of holding conflicting ideas in their head, or is so far around the bend that it’s better to not engage with them at all.

  125. ViciousD June 2, 2016 at 12:24 pm #

    “some handful of words are such that using them immidiately suggests that the person issuing them is not interested in debate, not capable of holding conflicting ideas in their head, or is so far around the bend that it’s better to not engage with them at all.”

    Well – if you honestly and truly believe that, then guess what, this here semi-pedo arsehole is more tolerant than you.

    I experience our exchange so far as having been amicable, but being the arsehole that I am, I’m bringing the hammer down on the notion that people should be expected to “conform” to have their voices heard.

    Um, no.
    In fact, the non-conformists – along with drunk people, and children – are the only ones who you may get the truth out of, if you make it a demand of people, to not use certain words, phrases, or lines of thought to be allowed to participate.

  126. James Pollock June 2, 2016 at 12:33 pm #

    “Well – if you honestly and truly believe that, then guess what, this here semi-pedo arsehole is more tolerant than you.”

    Good for you. Where do I send the award?

  127. ViciousD June 2, 2016 at 12:45 pm #

    @James: You could send it to Ms. Reanna “Tara” Huskey at https://twitter.com/shewantsagreek who is currently being harassed horribly by psycho-assholes and who I stood up for and tried to help by the way.

    Oh and the reason she’s being harassed? Well let’s just say some people tend to latch on to those who stand out a little, just to be bullies.

    I don’t approve of bullies, or of exploitative people, or of those who harass others for no good reason beyond choice of words.

  128. James Pollock June 2, 2016 at 1:03 pm #

    You missed the point.

    Some people will tell you, right at the front, that they have nothing useful to say, sometimes intentionally, usually not. Either way, though, when they do this, I take them at their word(s).

  129. ViciousD June 2, 2016 at 1:17 pm #

    Misunderstandings do happen.
    But, my argument was that choice of words are not the same as “telling somebody upfront” that they have “nothing to add”, in fact a choice of words that you disagree with, only means that – that you disagree.