“I Was Ambushed by Crazies For Letting My Son Wait in the Car”

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In which self-righteous  shamers leave the gorilla world behind and return to harassing more mundane moms:

Lenore, I just experienced my first crazy ‘concerned citizen’ this morning. I stopped at the dairy mart to get my son some breakfast on his way into daycare. When I’m running late, he waits the 3 minutes I’m inside the store, within my line of view. I came out this morning and this lady was screaming at me about how she could’ve got in the car and kidnapped him.

I told her she was crazy and got in the locked car with the keys she was supposedly going to use to drive off in. She then tried to block me into my parking spot. When that didn’t work, her husband drove the truck around me and tried to stop me in the middle of the road!

I turned down a side street because I didn’t want these crazy people knowing where my son went to daycare. I turned around and proceeded on my way. They were waiting for me!!

They did a u-turn, almost caused several accidents and flew down the road trying to catch up with me. I turned into a parking lot and watched them fly by before pulling out and going on my way.

These people thought they were being helpful but they put more people at risk than I did. Luckily I lost them before I dropped him off at daycare, but they were crazy and I wanted to share. —  Garfield Heights, Ohio

There’s something strange about a society where everyone is convinced that they just happen to have stumbled upon the crime of the century, and it’s right there at their local Kwik E Mart. (There’s also something strange about a society that believes that spelling “q” words with a “kw” is the height of hilarity).

When do-gooders become convinced that kids absolutely must be by their parents’ side at all times, they turn into mom-seeking missiles whenever they see a child unsupervised, however briefly.

The gorilla story actually weaves into this narrative, because it becomes another easily referenced example of “what can happen”  — even if it is the rarest of the rarest of outcomes. It’s just like how  people will bring up the names of stolen children when we mention letting our kids walk to the bus stop.

The only way to make these vigilance vigilantes understand that they are not making kids safer is to…I’m not sure. Keep repeating the fact that more kids die in moving cars than stationary ones? Remind them that a parked car is safer than a parking lot? Ask them to remember their own childhoods, and the time they spent not dying while waiting for their moms to shop?

I’m actually not sure how to beat back the baseless conviction that even a second in a car without mom = death. But it’s all part of the whole message here: Our kids are not in constant danger. Not waiting in a car. Not playing outside. And not even, believe it or not, at the zoo. – L

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Screeeeeech! There's that mom again! (Photo by Karolina Kabat)

There’s that mom whose parenting choices I disagree with again! Floor it! (Photo by Karolina Kabat)

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108 Responses to “I Was Ambushed by Crazies For Letting My Son Wait in the Car”

  1. Jess June 1, 2016 at 11:41 pm #

    I thought about writing in about my own experience too. I was arrested a few weeks ago by police, for leaving my sleeping toddler in the car for less than 20 minutes, on a not-too-warm day, it was 54 degrees, and I knew it would be fast. The county opted not to prosecute – maybe because I got a lawyer to start making calls, or maybe because they actually pulled the videotapes as the cops had threatened to, and realized they didn’t have a very strong argument, especially with no defined law in the state. Still, I was booked and cited with “Cruelty to a Child” – the scariest thing to face in you life, especially when you are not yet entering into the custody process, but are in the courts waiting to do so. I now have a Children/Family Services file, and that doesn’t get erased, ever. Even though no charges were pursued.

    I posted my photo of my ticket to a mommy Facebook group I’m in within my state (Vermont, there’s no law about leaving your child in a car being OK, despite what e-How says) and our group is completely split. We have the nannying moms who think it’s everybody’s business to rat each other out – and then, it seems to me often moms with more life experience or more kids, there are the ones who shudder to think of how that could’ve been them on any day of any week. I’ve always thought I was a free range parent, but barring any real laws, it’s terrifying to be on the other side, when a vigilante wants to step in.

    It turned out – the person who called police on me worked for the District Attorney’s office. So the DA couldn’t legally prosecute anyway, due to conflict of interest. But I guess I learned my lesson: parent as you wish at home, but parent for show in public.

  2. elizabeth June 1, 2016 at 11:52 pm #

    Thats not just crazy. Thats insane. That borders mental illness.

  3. TheOtherAnna June 1, 2016 at 11:53 pm #

    Whenever someone says, “I could have taken your child”, respond with, “Is that a threat, should I call the police?”

  4. James Pollock June 2, 2016 at 12:00 am #

    She put up with these nuts about 4 encounters more than I would’ve. This is why we pay law-enforcement professionals… to deal with the crazy so we don’t have to.

  5. James Pollock June 2, 2016 at 12:04 am #

    “It turned out – the person who called police on me worked for the District Attorney’s office. So the DA couldn’t legally prosecute anyway, due to conflict of interest.”

    That’s not how it works. If they want to prosecute you, they hand the case to another, nearby DA’s office. That prosecutor then makes the decision of whether or not to proceed, and takes it from there if they go forward.

  6. Michelle June 2, 2016 at 12:12 am #

    This is serious crazy, and I honestly can’t believe the LW didn’t call the police. That’s terrifying! Like a story I recently heard from another homeschooling mom about a neighbor who burst into her house and literally tried to snatch her toddler from her arms – because it’s “not healthy for parents to spend that much time with their kids.”

  7. marie June 2, 2016 at 1:17 am #

    I want a story where the mom comes out of the Kum and Go to find a crowd around her car, accusing her of being gone for 20 minutes and she checks her watch, surprised, says, “Is that all?” then calls to the toddler busily coloring inside the car, “I’ll be right back, Sweetie! I forgot a couple things.”

    I was gone for three minutes.
    I was just grabbing a rotisserie chicken.
    It couldn’t have been more than 12.6 minutes.

    We need to stop explaining ourselves, stop tring to placate the nosy parkers among us. If we think it is okay to leave our kids in the car for a few minutes or for an hour–and it is okay–that is our business.

    Obviously, my wishful story happens in an ideal world where nobody calls the cops and the cops don’t call CPS.

  8. Jane June 2, 2016 at 2:24 am #

    I would have called the cops and reported the stalkers. I’m glad I have a dash cam…

  9. Donald June 2, 2016 at 3:27 am #

    Loss aversion is a very real thing. It was discovered by Nobel Prize winner Daniel Kahneman

    The brain processes potential loss very differently. It is hard wired to do so. This survival instinct has served us well for millions of years. However after being bombarded by the fear hysteria, people are really going crazy.

    To explain loss aversion, I’ll use two different scenarios. Logically they will both be exactly the same but the brain will process each situation very differently.

    Scenario 1
    You’re at the checkout at the store. You are the 1 millionth customer. You win at least $100 and possibly $200! You win $100. You then flip a coin. If it lands on heads then you win another $100.

    Scenario 2
    You’re at the checkout at the store. You are the 1 millionth customer. You win at least $100 and possibly $200! You win $200. You then have to flip a coin. If it lands on heads then you lose $100.

    In both situations you win at least $100 and depending on the flip of a coin, you may win $200. However when the brain detects possible loss, it sees things very differently. If it sees a possible kidnapping, all hell can break loose! Furthermore, it can be extremely inaccurate at assessing risk. It can’t see any difference between a 1/1000 chance in a kidnapping and a 1/10000000000000 chance.

    These crazy people saw that you were putting your child at risk to a 1/1000 kidnapping

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loss_aversion

  10. BL June 2, 2016 at 5:15 am #

    “the person who called police on me worked for the District Attorney’s office.”

    Of course. Government employees outrank God – their word is Law. Just ask them, they’ll tell you.

    In a sane world, the actions of these “do-gooders” would be considered attempted murder. Not so hard to kill people by pursuing them in a car.

  11. Emily June 2, 2016 at 7:09 am #

    I left my three year old in the car with his thirteen year old brother and was accosted in the store by this lady- she was worried he would be snatched. My older son was creeped out by her standing there staring at our car. So maddening!

  12. Tim June 2, 2016 at 7:58 am #

    I once left my baby in a carriage at the foot of a grocery store checkout counter where they bag the groceries. I was about seven feet away at the register and the check out lady scolded me for leaving my baby so far away. “Someone could take him!”

    There really does seem to be a form of hysteria among some people.

    But in all the ensuing years I haven’t seen anything like this, so it can’t be too bad.

  13. Vicki Bradley June 2, 2016 at 8:31 am #

    I subscribe to Consumer Reports and they recently had an article titled “Tips to Prevent Hot-Car Tragedies.” Most of the suggestions were good except these two: 1) “Simple rule: Never leave a child unattended in a vehicle not even for a minute.” Of course, there’s no mention of the age of the child, so that could include children old enough to be left alone. 2) “If you see a child alone a car, especially if they seem hot, call 911 immediately to help get them out.” Again, there’s no distinction made between a situation where it’s obvious the child is fine, and one where the child is in distress because they have been forgotten (which, as we all know, is an exceedingly rare event). So, good old Consumer Reports, along with countless others, is perpetuating ill-placed fear about children in cars, and directing strangers to act on that fear, regardless of what is actually going on.

  14. Brooks June 2, 2016 at 9:20 am #

    My family and I witnessed the same thing last spring. But it wasn’t a kid, it was a perfectly happy, sleeping dog in a car for five minutes on a cloudy, mid-60’s day. And these weren’t suburban folks, but hard-scrabble country folk out in the boonies in rural Alabama. These are the kind of people who have six dogs under the porch and know a thing or two about being left alone.

    The lady who committed the horrific crime had parked next to me. I was waiting in the car while my wife grabbed a few things. The lady got out and was in and out of the store within minutes. It was after one or two minutes that what I could only describe as a swarm or human hornets started talking to each other, trying to break into the car and calling the sheriff. I told them the facts and the nearly got violent and told me to “mind my own business.”

    When the lady came back to her car, it nearly did become violent. Thinking back on a number of these experiences, I’m tempted to say the doggy patrol exceeds the baby patrol my several hundred percent.

  15. Emily Morris June 2, 2016 at 9:28 am #

    I so would have called the cops right and then there. Stop threatening my kid, lady!

    I was happy to have a very peaceful and polite conversation with my sister-in-law the other week. She lives in a very small ranching community that does have a few busybodies. Apparently one of her neighbors had indeed spotted some kids waiting in a car while in town, called the cops, and waited for the cops to arrive, thinking she had done the world a great service. My SiL was somewhat approving. I criticized the behavior based on the timing given to me. We then, like civilized people, discussed the whole spectrum and philosophy of letting kids wait in cars. She’s not quite at the same free-range perspective I am, but she did confess a change of heart on the situation and said she’d much rather be the concerned citizen that waited around awhile for a true problem before calling the cops.

    My elder daughter attends preschool at a nice lady who does it out of her home. If I’m doing dropoff/pick up and have the baby with us, heck yes I leave the baby while I run in a minute to sign her in and out and maybe quickly gab with her teacher. My husband, however, always brings in the baby… not out of fear of the baby getting snatched but because he fears the neighbor is nosy and will call CPS on him. Sigh. Sad we have to have this fear.

  16. Workshop June 2, 2016 at 9:35 am #

    I think the only way to stop it is to make it more painful for busybodies to get involved. Unfortunately, busybodies inhabit the very institutions that should prevent such intrusions.

    A call to the police claiming there is a potentially dangerous person who seems to not have taken medication or exhibiting other signs of a psychotic disorder, and that you fear for your safety, is probably the best thing that can be done. If you can then sue her for lost wages and court expenses, so much the better.

  17. Emily Morris June 2, 2016 at 9:36 am #

    And to leave another comment…

    Despite having jumped on the Freerange bandwagon after thinking Lenore was way awesome right after the initial subway incident and snatching up an advance copy of her book on my Amazon vine thing back in the day and promoting Freerange thoughts and, yes, leaving my kids in the car during super-quick errands…

    I do have an irrational fear of forgetting my kids in the car and them dying of heatstroke. I have thought this out, discussed this out with others and decide this comes from the fact that two different friends of friends have, tragically, lost children this way. I believe this also comes from the fact I am prone to anxiety. And, sure, let’s throw in the comparatively rare news stories that yes, are tragic and awful.

    I combat this fear with having my toddler play with my purse while driving, talking to my kids while driving, and having a sticker of my girls on my steering wheel. I welcome various tips to have in place and like I said I use a few.

    I still will leave my baby in the car while picking up/dropping off the preschooler and one or both kids during super-quick errands during cooler mornings/evenings. With the door locked if I feel it appropriate.

    There. I have confessed my weird fear despite my free-range leanings. Feel free to tar and feather me. =D

  18. JennB June 2, 2016 at 9:49 am #

    At least the car wasn’t broken into this time. Starting in August, a concerned citizen will be allowed to rescue minors and pets from vehicles in Ohio. Yes, the law does state that said citizen should call 911 first, but allows for action first if danger is imminent- with no definition of what this means.

    I leave my car unlocked when my children are waiting at a store; now I will do the same when the dogs are waiting in the car as well.

    Full text of the new law: http://search-prod.lis.state.oh.us/solarapi/v1/general_assembly_131/bills/sb215/EN/05?format=pdf

  19. lollipoplover June 2, 2016 at 10:18 am #

    When did this urban myth of the Easy Bake Death Chamber for every child left in a car?
    Tip of the day: TINTED WINDOWS. They let kids enjoy peace and keep the bad samaritans from promoting their sanctimonious beliefs.

    What this couple did to you- especially with their vehicle- is harassment.
    How traumatizing to you and THE CHILD when being chased in a car.
    What sane person attempts reckless driving…for the safety of a child? I would have gotten their license plate and reported them.

  20. Beth2 June 2, 2016 at 10:35 am #

    Regulars on this site already know that a small child faces more danger crossing a parking lot than waiting in the car for a short period. So how do we convince society at large of this basic truth? Statistics don’t seem to convince people, but scary anecdotes do. So, I will share my own scary anecdote, and you are free to pass it along:

    I have three small children, who sit in the back seat as follows: The baby sits in the middle car seat, the safest spot, facing backward. The 2-year-old and 4-year-old sit in carseats on either side. To get the baby out, I have to lean into the car with my whole body and use both hands. But I can’t get him out without getting one of the two older kids out first, because there isn’t enough room to reach across them and pull a baby out. Whichever older child I take out first, will be unattended in the parking lot for the solid 15-20 seconds it takes me to get the baby out. I learned quickly that I cannot take the 2-year-old out first, because she cannot be trusted to stay still next to the car while I lean in with my whole body to get the baby out. Despite constant admonishment, she’s just too young to reliably behave. So I follow this very specific process any time I take them *anywhere*: I unbuckle the 4-year-old, help her out, and have her hold my pocket while I lean in and take out the baby. I then carry the baby and hold the 4-year-old’s hand while we walk around the car to let the 2-year-old out. While my 4-year-old holds my pocket and while I hold my very heavy baby using only my right arm, I unbuckle my 2-year-old using only my left hand. While still holding the baby in my right arm, I use my left arm to help swing the 2-year-old out of the car. I then hold the two-year-old’s hand, the baby in my one arm, and the 4-year-old holds my pocket or the baby’s foot while we cross the parking lot.

    All of the above still depends upon some moderate level of good behavior from everyone. If the baby starts to squirm and writhe, I have to break my hold on the 2-year-old’s hand in order to secure the baby. If either kid recklessly darts off, I’m helpless to catch them. Every day, multiple times a day, my heart is in my throat until we make it to the threshold of our destination.

    Every weekday I drop them off at day care on my way to work. I follow the above ritual to get them across the parking lot. Day care parking lots are especially dangerous. Cars are constantly coming and going, everyone is in a hurry to get to work, and all the kids are tiny, unpredictable, and hard to see.

    One day, my 2-year-old was having a rough morning and was particularly defiant. I knew she wouldn’t behave in the parking lot, despite repeated warnings. The weather was 60 degrees and overcast. I knew the safest action was to bring only my baby and 4-year-old into the day care, sign them in, kiss them goodbye, and then come back for the 2-year-old. But my inner lawyer got the better of me: I thought about how day cares are “Mandatory Reporters,” and how all it would take was one parent seeing my 2-year-old in the car, reporting it to the front desk, them calling the cops, and me ending up in a legal nightmare that I didn’t have the time, energy, or money for.

    So I took all three out at once. We were almost across the lot when my 2-year-old broke free and ran toward the door, just as a car came whipping around the corner into the lot, not watching. I screamed “STOP!”,

    Although my 2-year-old didn’t stop, the car mercifully did, just about 6 inches from my sweet toddler. The mom apologized profusely, admitted she wasn’t looking because she was busy looking for an empty space to park. I didn’t know what to say. This is a woman I know and like, ordinarily a very good mom, who made a terrible, almost fatal mistake and almost killed my kid. I couldn’t say it was “okay.” I knew she felt terrible. And I was so relieved my child was safe that I didn’t want to waste time being angry.

    But mostly, I was angry at myself for not trusting my own mommy gut. I *knew* the safest thing to do that morning was leave my kid in the car alone. But I let the judgment of *other people* trump my own judgment about the best interests of my child. That day, I vowed never to do that again. If my child had died that day, I would have never forgiven myself. My maternal judgment is the best tool I have. I am an intelligent and moral person, no one loves my children more than me, and no one can predict their behavior better than me. How can I possibly let anything other than my own judgment govern how I raise my kids and keep them safe?

    From that day forward, any time I believe it’s safer for my kids to wait in the car, I have them wait in the car: At the dry cleaners, the bank, the gas station (when pay-at-the pump is broken), and even(!) the day care.

    If it helps anyone defend their own parenting choices, feel free to use my story.

  21. SteveS June 2, 2016 at 10:55 am #

    It turned out – the person who called police on me worked for the District Attorney’s office. So the DA couldn’t legally prosecute anyway, due to conflict of interest. But I guess I learned my lesson: parent as you wish at home, but parent for show in public.

    This isn’t necessarily a conflict of interest. Obviously, if they were a witness and would be called upon to provide testimony, they couldn’t be involved in the prosecution, but I don’t see a problem if they were kept out of the case.

  22. marie June 2, 2016 at 11:29 am #

    @Emily Morris
    Irrational fears are one thing but if your response to those fears is rational, you are doing fine. Another suggestion is to leave your purse in the back seat with the baby. When you reach for your purse, you will be reminded about the baby.

  23. Juluho June 2, 2016 at 11:56 am #

    Like that story where the mom took pictures of the guy at the mall and posted them on Facebook calling him a stalker, these people are turning into the thing they fear. ‘He could have been kidnapped’ turns into ‘ya’ll will be involved in a car chase’? Like what the actual _____?!?
    I would lose lose lose my mind and my temper.
    Why didn’t she call the cops? Because she was more scared of being prosecuted for an imaginary crime than an actual crime (criminal threats and stalking). What even is this world coming to?
    I wish I could be more free range but I am 100% more concerned about ‘concerned’ citizens than I am any lifetime movie criminals.

    I let my almost 10 yr old go into the gas station to buy a soda last week while we waited in the car and I was absolutely terrified someone would flip out and come bang my window. It didn’t happen but I can’t shake that feeling.

  24. Catherine Caldwell-Harris June 2, 2016 at 12:15 pm #

    Regarding: “The only way to make these vigilance vigilantes understand that they are not making kids safer is to…”

    Remind the crazies of the disadvantages of over-protection and giving children insufficient autonomy, chances to explore on their own and experience danger: growing up anxious and a risk for depression. Teen suicide. Your child is more likely to commit suicide than be abducted by a stranger .

  25. John June 2, 2016 at 12:21 pm #

    Quote:

    “especially with no defined law in the state. Still, I was booked and cited with ‘Cruelty to a Child’” I now have a Children/Family Services file, and that doesn’t get erased, ever. Even though no charges were pursued.”

    @Jess:

    This pretty much confirms what I’ve been saying all along Jess when it comes to children here in America. The Constitution does not seem to apply.

  26. lollipoplover June 2, 2016 at 12:42 pm #

    “Remind the crazies of the disadvantages of over-protection and giving children insufficient autonomy, chances to explore on their own and experience danger: growing up anxious and a risk for depression. Teen suicide. Your child is more likely to commit suicide than be abducted by a stranger.”

    More importantly, stand up to the crazies and call them out on what they are actually doing- terrifying and threatening a child.

    Turn the questioning back to:
    “What are you doing to this child? You have no right to upset her like that. I am reporting you now. Please stay away from my car and my child. Immediately.”

    In what universe would it ever be helpful to act like Boss Hogg and give car chase to harass a mom and small child? Sounds like the maple syrup needs to be spiked with some anti-anxiety meds for these lunatic busybodies.

    @Emily Morris-
    I have an irrational fear of something bad happening to my kids in water or with sharks. We still go to beaches and they are strong swimmers, but I hover like no other… rip tides, strong currents, hitting their head, my mind races and it makes me feel better to being overly cautious and recognize that a rip tide is just as likely to pull me away as it is them. But the sharks…I saw Jaws at too early an age and I’m scarred for life on my fear of sharks. My kids know this, and enjoy going for underwater ankle grabs or pinches to scare the living daylights out of me.
    So not funny…

  27. SanityAnyone? June 2, 2016 at 12:44 pm #

    @Jess, I really feel for you. You and the Meitivs and others are experiencing our fears coming true in your lives. We are making thoughtful, rational decisions but inside a mob mentality culture that disagrees and we are vulnerable to their power.

    The idea that we have to publicly parent “for show” is maddening and oppressive, but well said.

  28. Buffy June 2, 2016 at 12:51 pm #

    Well, two people have now told Jess (the first commenter) that she/he is lying. Why would either of you need to do that…you couldn’t just keep your outstanding legal knowledge to yourself?

  29. sigh June 2, 2016 at 12:52 pm #

    So F*ing Scary.

    I’d say call the cops but then again… don’t.

    When people are feeling emotional about something, they really shouldn’t be driving. That’s one of the things they taught us in driver’s ed. That “emotional driving” is extremely dangerous.

    So they were trying to impede your car in the road when you were transporting your son? This is adding magnitudes of orders of higher risk to your son than anything you did by leaving him in the car in the parking lot.

    But here’s the thing: When people get hijacked emotionally, their amygdala is in the driver’s seat, not the part of the brain that makes logical choices.

    I’m sorry these people put you, your son, bystanders, themselves, and other drivers at such great risk. I hope no one was actually harmed. If they had been, what a tragedy in the extreme.

  30. Vaughan Evans June 2, 2016 at 12:59 pm #

    The people who tried to intervene should have been more circumspect.
    ALSO: Why didn’t the woman take the 3-year boy into the Dairy Queen with her?

  31. Theresa June 2, 2016 at 1:12 pm #

    Should of called the police on the crazy drivers following you everywhere. That would shut them up!

  32. brian June 2, 2016 at 1:23 pm #

    If this really was this morning, I would recommend that you cease posting about this story. The wackos probably got your plates and you may get a visit from Social Services. I would want to reserve my ability to obfuscate how often you actually leave your kid in the car and what exactly you thought the people were trying to do. The less you state in writing in advance of an investigation the better.

  33. Mary Kay McGowan June 2, 2016 at 1:27 pm #

    Your commentary and photo are so funny.

    I think some of the craziness is a result of our “lock down,” public school mentality fostered by the strong arm of the federal government where parents rights are continually being lost to government authority.

    Here’s a recap of my first day at our public school visiting for the kindergarten orientation:

    I am the mom of a five year old who will be going to Kindergarten this fall in Riverside. Already my experiences with the school have been strange with undercurrents of totalitarian control.

    A few weeks ago, after Riverside Elementary’s kindergarten orientation I walked down the hallway to peer into a classroom and get a glimpse of what first grade looks like.

    Out of nowhere the sound of clacking high heels came stalking loudly to me and a door was flung open directly in my face by an arm reaching in front of me. Then the other arm reached, somehow defying anatomical limitations, into the room to grab and violently pull down a small window shade covering my small view into the classroom.

    In the instant this all took place a scolding voice accompanied the visual blockade asking:

    “What do you THINK you are doing?”

    Shocked by the reprimand and speedy way I was deterred from looking as if there were top secret experiments going on inside.

    Startled by the confrontation, I answered:
    “I’m just looking in the classroom. I’m a mom of a five year old and I was just at the kindergarten orientation. I wanted to see a first grade class.”

    “Not while they’re learning you won’t!”

    She cut me off.

    “Who are you?” I asked and now could see the face that went with those wild arms, riveting high heels and angry demeanor,

    “I’m the Vice Principal” she said with an air of pride and authoritarian zeal.

    Then a flash of surprise went through my mind as I could now see all of her and what she was wearing. A miniskirt, high heeled tall black leather boots, a tight sweater. It was so out of the ordinary to me to see someone announce their title as Vice Principle of an elementary school and be dressed like a hooker that it may have surprised me more than even the police style confrontation that had just occurred.

    The Vice Principal was a little late getting to me as I had already peered into the other four First Grade classrooms as well. All were the same. First graders staring down at iPads with huge headphones on their ears while teachers were at their desks doing something else.

    So if this school culture of careful is allowed to legally violate parents rights ( which it is – see website parents prights there’s a petition around to try to protect them)

  34. Warren June 2, 2016 at 1:55 pm #

    These laws being passed that allow vigilantes to break into your vehicle are going to backfire.

    People will get hurt if not killed by the owners of the vehicles. I see an idiot attempting to break into my truck, I am not pausing to give them the benefit of the doubt to their intentions. I, like a lot of people I know will act first and ask questions later.

    Mind you the warning on the dash works well. Touch the truck and if the dogs don’t get you the owner will!

  35. Papilio June 2, 2016 at 2:14 pm #

    Shooting a canon to kill a mosquito… This is so the world upside down. Endangering everyone around you including yourself over such a non-incident.
    I almost hoped they’d get into a minor accident, just so they would have to explain the reasons for their irresponsible behavior to others and the police :-/

    “(There’s also something strange about a society that believes that spelling “q” words with a “kw” is the height of hilarity).”
    Well in that case, that society should love my language: http://www.woorden.org/begin/kW

    “Kwik E Mart” < Not sure I'd like to buy my food at the 'Mercury' E Mart 😛

  36. Betsy in Michigan June 2, 2016 at 2:19 pm #

    Since the LW didn’t call the cops on her violent stalkers (I SO would have done that!), she might consider making a police report to head off any CPS nasties.

    And I think it’s time people like Jess start fighting back after they’ve protected themselves with lawyers, by filing lawsuits for defamation of character and whatever other legalese means are available.

  37. Sylv June 2, 2016 at 2:51 pm #

    OT, Papilio, leuk 🙂

  38. Alexander June 2, 2016 at 3:04 pm #

    @Warren These laws being passed that allow vigilantes to break into your vehicle are going to backfire.

    People will get hurt if not killed by the owners of the vehicles. I see an idiot attempting to break into my truck, I am not pausing to give them the benefit of the doubt to their intentions. I, like a lot of people I know will act first and ask questions later.

    Mind you the warning on the dash works well. Touch the truck and if the dogs don’t get you the owner will!”

    You don’t have any fight training besides blowing hot air do you? Every martial art in existence teaches de-escalation as the first response. Have you tried asking people what they are doing while being prepared for a hostile response?

    It’s a real wonder to me you haven’t been arrested for assault yet or more likely simply stabbed or shot by one of the people you decided to launch a crusade against.

  39. Ron Skurat June 2, 2016 at 3:23 pm #

    There are no “freak accidents” anymore – someone always has to be blamed. And it’s usually the parents.

    Also, 20-30 years ago lots of cases of harm to kids never made it into the news, so perceptions were different. Now, every single instance of harm to achild, anywhere in the country, ends up story #1. There could be a life-threatening tornado situation & if a kid tripped in a mall in Skokie you’ll hear about it.

  40. Warren June 2, 2016 at 3:25 pm #

    Alexander

    Martial arts are great. Never needed them.

    Now if you want to give the person with a tire iron or whatever they are using a chance to use it on you, go for it. I’m not going to take that risk. See the times I have been in altercations the difference between you and me is simple. I fight to win. Not to look good or stylish. Like the old man says “Dirty fighters are never liked but they don’t lose either. ”

    Will put my skills up against anyone. If I lose so be it but haven’t to date. You don’t like that well sucks to be you.

  41. James Pollock June 2, 2016 at 3:38 pm #

    “Well, two people have now told Jess (the first commenter) that she/he is lying.”

    Really? Where?

    I’m seeing you lying, right there, but that’s it.

  42. Alexander June 2, 2016 at 3:40 pm #

    Alexander

    Martial arts are great. Never needed them.

    Now if you want to give the person with a tire iron or whatever they are using a chance to use it on you, go for it. I’m not going to take that risk. See the times I have been in altercations the difference between you and me is simple. I fight to win. Not to look good or stylish. Like the old man says “Dirty fighters are never liked but they don’t lose either. ”

    Will put my skills up against anyone. If I lose so be it but haven’t to date. You don’t like that well sucks to be you.—

    So no I know you have no training as I suspected. I think you’ve never lost because you’ve never been in a real fight. No real fighter would say nonsense like – “I’ve never lost!”. Even the toughest pros have loses on their record, and there is nothing like training to bring you back down to earth. Maybe you managed to intimidate some scrawny guy with glasses because he said something mean to a lady, but that’s not a fight is it. Maybe you beat up some drunk guy in a bar once. I don’t know. It means nothing.

    Your old man is dead wrong. The only thing that makes you a good fighter is training in a realistic, full contact environment. If you think you’ll beat up Fedor Emelianenko, or anyone with even a year of MMA training with your imaginary skills your are delusional. I would even give you a crow bar. You’ll still be turned into a pretzel before you can say uncle.

    I’ve made my living as a professional fighter for 15 years (super heavyweight, retired now, and no, you don’t have to believe me), and you are going to get yourself killed if you act in real life the way you talk on this forum. You know what my old man told me about fighting? “Never throw the first punch.”

    To this day I have not. Well, once but I had exceptionally good reason to do so. But if some idiot attacks me because he doesn’t like me standing near his truck or using foul language in front of a lady :), I would be more than happy to break both his legs. I used to think like you, but I was 7 at the time so it might be time to grow up.

  43. James Pollock June 2, 2016 at 3:43 pm #

    “If this really was this morning, I would recommend that you cease posting about this story. The wackos probably got your plates and you may get a visit from Social Services. I would want to reserve my ability to obfuscate how often you actually leave your kid in the car and what exactly you thought the people were trying to do.”

    On the contrary. If those twits were stupid enough to mention to a government official that they attempted to take a person into custody who was not actually violating the law, AND went on to conduct a motor vehicle chase, this makes excellent evidence for when you sue them for their actions.

    (Speaking as a hypothetical juror on the hypothetical jury in the hypothetical criminal trial where the writer has been charged with brandishing a firearm, or even using it to shoot one or both of the tormentors, the use was justified, you were in reasonable fear for your safety and your child’s, acquittal, let’s go home.)

  44. James Pollock June 2, 2016 at 3:45 pm #

    Alexander

    Oh, snap.

  45. Warren June 2, 2016 at 4:03 pm #

    Alexander

    Good for you.

    I have had a run in or few with over confident guys like you. Two hid behind their buddies the other one went down and took my advice to stay down.

    You can say whatever you want but it is only hot air if you can’t back it up. And I will and do. So there is another difference between us. I win and you lose. Next.

  46. Alexander June 2, 2016 at 4:11 pm #

    No, the difference between you and me is I am trained and you are an idiot.

    Also, I have nothing to prove because I am comfortable with the size of my penis.

    There are other differences, but I’ll leave you to figure them out.

  47. Alexander June 2, 2016 at 4:14 pm #

    Also if you are telling me you ran into a professional fighter that hid behind his buddies I call bullshit.

    But if you just believe you know how to fight hard enough, I am sure it will come true. In the mean time go join a boxing gym or a wrestling gym to start. Maybe you’ll learn something.

    If you are trying now, to make the point, that training is not 100% required to be a good fighter you’re dumber than I thought.

  48. Emily June 2, 2016 at 4:35 pm #

    I would have called the police myself – that is seriously frightening behavior.

    And Jess (commenter) I’m so sorry that happened to you. Good for you for getting a lawyer and fighting it. It sucks that the file stays open on you even though the charges were dropped. 🙁

  49. EricS June 2, 2016 at 4:37 pm #

    Should’ve called the cops. Saying some crazy people tried to block you in, then followed you. You feared for your son’s and your safety. Turnaround is fair play. I would have never let the get away with that. Even people who’ve been around a long time still needs to learn and be put in their place. They need to learn consequences of their actions. This is why people do what they do, because they haven’t experienced such consequences. Because most people let them get away with it.

    You, did nothing illegal or wrong. But they did. By blocking you in, chasing you and trying to block you off in the middle of the road, and then stalking you, they were the ones that were truly putting your child in danger. If I had been you, I’d would have been pulling that douche bag out of the car and dragging him across the road by his ear. There actions were blatant and malicious. Under the guise of “concern for the child”.

    Call the cops next time you are harassed like that. Most people who react like this believe what you did is against the law, because people like them are posting left right and center about it. But it’s NOT illegal. Your son was not in any danger, nor even remotely close to it. It wasn’t blistering hot out (I’m guessing it wasn’t), and you weren’t gone for more than 10-15 min. Hell, even 20 min isn’t very long. If they want to spout “laws”, use actual law against them. I’m very sure they’ll think twice next time.

  50. Warren June 2, 2016 at 4:40 pm #

    Alexander

    You proved my suspicions correct. A few chosen words and you lose control. Try some anger management, because that is the reason you lose.

    All that training and yet you can’t keep your composure. Disappointing.

  51. James Pollock June 2, 2016 at 4:43 pm #

    “There are other differences, but I’ll leave you to figure them out.”

    If you are wondering if the hot air ever stops, alas, it does not.

  52. Jen June 2, 2016 at 4:45 pm #

    I think all Warren was saying was that if someone was about to put a tire iron through his window or remove his dogs from his truck, it would already be too late for conversation. Considering the inconvenience of the clean-up or the potential injury to or loss of my dogs — can’t say I blame him, regardless of whether or not it would be my choice. And, there’s a difference between being a professional fighter and standing up for yourself and protecting your possessions. I get that professional fighters are taught to restrain their emotions — as are cops and others who are trained to actually hurt someone. Forgive the rest of the population who is typically level headed but might just get hoppin’ mad if someone were to put our interests (pet, family, livelihood) at risk. There is a difference between being vindictive or a bully (which I do not think is the case with Warren) and standing up for yourself or others.

  53. Alexander June 2, 2016 at 4:49 pm #

    When did I lose control? I just think you’re an idiot.

    You’re walking around without any training (by your own admission), thinking you can beat Fedor Emelianenko in a fist fight. And I am the one that’s over confident?

    Are you upset your tough guy internet persona is exposed for the fraud that you are? I am pretty much done with you. At this point, please do yourself a favor, walk into any MMA gym and ask to spar with a jiu-jitsu black belt. They’ll be happy to do it, I promise. Post a video of how that works out for you.

    Note the burden of proof about your alleged invincible toughness is on you. I’ve never said I am undefeated. I’ve never said that minor annoyance in life warrant physical violence, and I’ve never suggested that anyone attack people for saying something I don’t like. You’re not only a moron, but you’re a bully – which is worse. It’s simple, don’t hit people first. The sooner you learn this, the safer you’ll be.

    Also stop posting this vigilante, super hero fairy tale that you built up in your head. I think at this point everyone can see you don’t know what you are talking about. Some kid might read this and believe you.

  54. EricS June 2, 2016 at 4:49 pm #

    @Donald: You hit it right on the nail. EVERYTHING is all about perception. With that perception, also involves logic, common sense and reason. Like mentioned her many times before. Possibilities vs probabilities. Yes, it’s possible that there are predators lurking every corner to nab YOUR child specifically. Is it probable, highly unlikely. It’s very possible for a plane to land on your house, while your in the crapper. Does one stay out of their homes and take a crap somewhere else? Because it’s also possible that wherever one is, a plane can drop on them. But is it probable? Again, highly unlikely. People see things differently than others. And it’s all based on what their brains are preconditioned to believe. This preconditioning all starts from the time they are children. And grows from there. Basically, if one is taught to be fearful at young age, they will tend to be fearful adults. Even more so because these things tend to get worse and worse. Especially in this age of internet and technology. The smallest of inklings that kinda sorta “confirm” what they fear, and they automatically believe it’s the truth. It is all in the mind. Not actual facts. The mind is a powerful thing! It can make you believe your seeing something that isn’t there. That’s fact.

    People need to stop giving in to their fears, and use their heads. See what is actually in front of them. Not an idea that they think may or may not happen.

  55. Alexander June 2, 2016 at 4:53 pm #

    @James Pollock

    But I’ve never talked to a real life, undefeated, super-hero before so I was curious to see how this pans out. I was not disappointed.So overall, time well spent.

  56. Joanna June 2, 2016 at 5:05 pm #

    Just off the top of my head, I can think of several REAL crines that crazy woman and her equally-nutso husband were guilty of. “Unlawful detainment” for starters, for attempting to keep Mom from backing her car out of the parking spot at the store. Clearly, the ONLY “risk” to the child were Mr. and Mrs. Nutjob. Such people need to GET A LIFE of their own instead of looking for ways to interfere in the lives of others.

  57. Papilio June 2, 2016 at 5:11 pm #

    @Sylv: How leuk that you find it leuk 🙂

  58. EricS June 2, 2016 at 5:12 pm #

    @Alexander: De-escalation is always my first option. But, if you train, and have experience with people in these situations, you would also know that some situations, the only de-escalation is taking the guy out before he can do damage to you or your property. Eg. I get to my car and a guy starts freaking out about me leaving my kid or dog inside. I’d talk to him calmly and explain the situation. Show him that my kid/dog is fine, and the “what if” mentality he has is unfounded. You know, use logic and common sense for them to ponder on. Usually that works. They just feel stupid for over reacting and walk away grumbling. No harm no foul. Now, if he had a weapon in hand, ready to swing at me, or smash my window (directly threatening the well being of my kid or dog, glass shattering and all), I’m taking him out before he can lift that thing past his head. And I wouldn’t stop until he stopped.

    Yes, I train. Been training for a very long time. My mentality has always been, “I trained to fight, so that I don’t have to”. Yes, I’ve been in situations like that. Used to work the bar/club industry for 15 years. So not much comes my way that surprises me about people. This is also one of the places where I’ve learned about people and how they think, in the condition they are thinking in. I know when I can talk a guy down, and I know when talking isn’t going to work (but that doesn’t stop me from trying anyway). I always give them the chance to do a 180, and more than prepared (and welcoming) if they don’t. I always react accordingly. And never go beyond what I need to do. I’ve also have friends on the force, who have given me tips over the years in how to handle certain situations within the law. My “flight or fight” switch is broken. It only goes to “fight” when I’m put in a situation. Which is why I always try to go the “peaceful route” first. I never start, but I will always make a point to finish if someone starts with me. Most especially if my kids or my dog is involved. Never fk with a man and his kids when your only assuming things. A different story if you actually see a father being physically abusive to their children. I’d knock him the fk out. Talk later. lol

  59. James Pollock June 2, 2016 at 5:32 pm #

    “When did I lose control? I just think you’re an idiot.”

    You are wasting your time and effort continuing.

  60. Warren June 2, 2016 at 5:37 pm #

    Alexander

    Not once did I state training is not good, it can be great. You are the fool that believes you have to have formal training to be a good fighter.

    I also have never said I could beat any specific person. Your fantasy not mine. What it comes down is simple. You are scared where I am not.

    I will take heart and determination over trained every single time. So you just keep telling your drinking buddies your glory days tales. And I will keep standing up for myself and others. Because other than bore them to death I cannot see you being of any real use.

  61. James Pollock June 2, 2016 at 5:41 pm #

    “But I’ve never talked to a real life, undefeated, super-hero before”

    Still haven’t.

    In my youth, I was involved in a LOT of fistfights (side effect of my name, plus the 70’s being peak period for Polish jokes, plus kids being stupid.)

    I had a friend who had also been in a lot of fights, and had a bit of a superhero complex (and… he had trained. MMA hadn’t really been invented yet, or that’s what he would have been doing.) He was just 19 when he stumbled across a mugging, decided to step in, and stopped six bullets.

  62. Paul June 2, 2016 at 5:42 pm #

    “If you are wondering if the hot air ever stops, alas, it does not.”

    Pot and kettle.

  63. James Pollock June 2, 2016 at 6:20 pm #

    ““If you are wondering if the hot air ever stops, alas, it does not.”

    Pot and kettle.

    If you can’t tell the difference, it reflects on you, not me. Have a nice day.

  64. Alexander June 2, 2016 at 6:22 pm #

    @EricS See, that’s reasonable. I have no problem with defending yourself once other avenues are exhausted. Obviously, as a bouncer you know this. I am sure you also know the ridiclousness of claiming that one has never lost a fight.

  65. Alexander June 2, 2016 at 6:31 pm #

    @warren

    You really think a pro fighter is afraid of fighting? You are stubborn at least, that’s something.

    Listen carefully, you are not put on this earth to flex your manly muscles and tell people how to live. I have 2 kids and i would hate for them to grow up alone while i rot in prison for assault because of a truck.

    If anybody threatened me or my family they would have a very bad day. But i dont go looking for trouble like you claim to. I eagerly await your account of your trip to any fighting gym, and how you show everyone how heart and determination beats experience and training. You will get killed. Bottom line is, you dont know how to fight. Dont act like you do. You will just get hurt, arrested, or worse.

  66. Beth June 2, 2016 at 6:43 pm #

    I’m about done with this site. These pissy arguments that derail every thread are ridiculous. And don’t tell me not to read them. You all could act like adults and not like this is your private playground.

  67. Donald June 2, 2016 at 7:02 pm #

    Lenore

    I found another cartoon that you may like.

    http://content.screencast.com/users/dchristensen777/folders/Default/media/c6e51491-d592-4085-816b-e3b761ecaa37/am008.jpg

    No one escapes loss and disappointment. The question is, How do we handle it?
    Pain is inevitable. Misery is a choice.

    This flies in the face of helicopter parenting or the idea that children are too frail and must be sheltered from disappointment. This means that they don’t learn how to handle it. This is why we have so many crazy people.

    This may be why good samaritans/stalkers/lunatics in this story acted as they did.

  68. Warren June 2, 2016 at 7:06 pm #

    Alexander

    Been hurt. No big deal.
    Been detained until statements were taken. No big deal.
    Never been shot but I don’t see that as a risk here in Ontario.
    Dealt with idiots like you, usually by laughing at them.
    And you have been good for laughs.

    I have never said I was tougher than you or anyone else. That said your history means squat and would not stop me from acting.

    As for being arrested? It is not illegal to take some moron down that is posing a risk to your family, property or other individuals.

    Some of us aren’t afraid to get involved and then there are people like you who are.

  69. Xena_Rulz June 2, 2016 at 7:07 pm #

    Hey, Alexander and Warren – can you please put your d**ks back into your pants? We don’t want to see that. Go pull them out somewhere else.

  70. Alexander June 2, 2016 at 7:44 pm #

    @xena rulz

    You cared enough to stick your nose in…

  71. Alexander June 2, 2016 at 7:52 pm #

    @warren

    You think you can tun faster than a pro runner without training?

    You think you can cook better than a pro chef without lessons?

    You think you can do anything without study and training? And i am the idiot here?

    I tried to help you moron. But you keep walking around getting into fights because you think you’re tough, see where that gets you. Or better yet, like i said go take a class.

    There be fair maidens that need saving over yonder.
    By the way, the only one telling tales is you. I mention my proffession as it was relevant. You don’t see me regaling the audience with how i knocked out somebody while he hod behind 2 friends like some feral dick.

    Peace out.

  72. Warren June 2, 2016 at 8:06 pm #

    Alexander
    No I couldn’t beat a trained fighter in their ring or cage, by the rules of their sanctioning body. Please show me when and where I even hinted I could.

    Last time I looked their were no rules or sanctioning body in a parking lot. No rules, no official and no bell to save your sorry butt. No such thing as a fist fight in the streets there is only scraps. You best stay home where your wife can save you.

  73. Manny June 2, 2016 at 8:34 pm #

    In situations like this, first one to call the police wins.

  74. Donald June 2, 2016 at 9:31 pm #

    LOL

    “Hey, Alexander and Warren – can you please put your d**ks back into your pants? We don’t want to see that. Go pull them out somewhere else.”

  75. Beth2 June 2, 2016 at 9:44 pm #

    Aw, hang in there, Other Beth! I always like your comments!

  76. Trebor June 2, 2016 at 9:50 pm #

    The solution to not forgetting your child in a hot car is to keep them in the front seat. But that is illegal – and so that law is what puts your kid in danger.

  77. James Pollock June 2, 2016 at 10:14 pm #

    “The solution to not forgetting your child in a hot car is to keep them in the front seat. But that is illegal – and so that law is what puts your kid in danger.”

    Don’t be silly. The solution to not forgetting your child in a hot car is to never ever put your child into a car. Just raise them right in the hospital where they were born. No, wait. Sick people… contagion.

    I guess the only answer is to never have kids.

  78. Meagan June 3, 2016 at 2:43 am #

    I recently got “turned in” by one of these vigilantes. I was picking up a to-go order at a Chinese restaurant for my husband’s work & parked outside the restaurant. I knew I’d be no more than 5 minutes so I left my sleeping 6 month old in the car with it running. I could barely see my car from inside because of all the painted advertising on the glass, so after signing for the food (it had been about 1.5 minutes) I stepped out to check on him & saw a lady & two firemen around the car. I ran out there but it was too late, the firemen, (she had wrangled them from the business next door) had become witnesses to this “atrocity.” I told them that I’d only been inside about a minute & was keeping my eye on him from inside but the vigilante yelled at me that “that’s no excuse” and drove off in a huff. The firemen were apologetic & understanding but they had to report it to the police. I just got a warning and a lecture. I was born and raised in Texas but recently moved to California and the culture shock is real. I’m glad I wasn’t gone longer, in 1 more minute she would have probably has child services there!
    The worst part is that she posed about it on a public group neighborhood site on Facebook where citizens can get info about what’s going on in town. Needless to say, some facts were drastically misrepresented and unkind words were said. I’m tempted to reply but I’m afraid of being berated and she doesn’t know who I am!

  79. SteveS June 3, 2016 at 7:06 am #

    These laws being passed that allow vigilantes to break into your vehicle are going to backfire.

    Going back to Warren’s original comment, he brings up a hood point. These kinds of laws may give people a false sense of power and encourage people to act in situations where it may not be wise to do so. We already have mechanisms in the law that would allow someone to break a car window if they saw some kind of medical emergency.

    As for the risk to a potential “helper”, how do you think the owner of a car is going to react if they see a person violently trying to enter a vehicle that has their children in it? To the owner of the car, this may look far different than it really is.

  80. SteveS June 3, 2016 at 7:07 am #

    I meant “good”, not “hood.”

  81. Paul June 3, 2016 at 8:16 am #

    “As for the risk to a potential “helper”, how do you think the owner of a car is going to react if they see a person violently trying to enter a vehicle that has their children in it? To the owner of the car, this may look far different than it really is.”

    Exactly. One’s initial instincts may not be guided by cool, rational thought. It’s as though we’re just begging for some kind of violent incident, and sadly, one of these days there will be a violent incident sparked by one of these confrontations.

  82. Vicki Bradley June 3, 2016 at 8:23 am #

    Warren, Alexander and James, you’ve all gone completely off topic – your current discussion is laughable and pathetic and you really should take it elsewhere (there must be a forum out there for guys like you who like to puff up their chests and talk tough).

  83. Workshop June 3, 2016 at 9:38 am #

    What is it called when troll feed trolls?

    The situation does (almost) make me want to get a dog to sit with the kids when I leave them in the car. And not one of the big ones; people can see those. I’d get a little one. One with a Napoleon complex, out to prove itself against bigger threats.

    On the plus side, I left my son in the car yesterday as I ran back in to a fast food joint to get the correct order. When I came back, he was still asleep, no one was berating me, and I was able to drive off in peace.

  84. Alexander June 3, 2016 at 9:47 am #

    Alexander
    No I couldn’t beat a trained fighter in their ring or cage, by the rules of their sanctioning body. Please show me when and where I even hinted I could.

    Ok….

    quote A Warren: “I have had a run in or few with over confident guys like you. Two hid behind their buddies the other one went down and took my advice to stay down. …I win and you lose. Next.”

    quote B: “Will put my skills up against anyone. If I lose so be it but haven’t to date. ”

    quote C: “See the times I have been in altercations the difference between you and me is simple. I fight to win. Not to look good or stylish.”

    quote D: “I will take heart and determination over trained every single time.”

    etc… just in this thread.

    I don’t know how you aren’t sore after all these mental gymnastics yet. Actually in almost every thread you pop in with “If I was there, I would use my manly manliness and heads would roll.”

    Please don’t bring this street vs ring nonsense into this discussion. If you can’t win in the ring, you won’t win in the street either.

    I am going to analyze a few numbers for you. When you fight other untrained fighters, your win rate will be 50%. So your undefeated claim is laughable. The only way to raise that statistic is to fight people much smaller or weaker than you (and even then they could still stab you, so you want to avoid doing that). You haven’t just been fighting 100lbs teenagers have you?

    The other problem with throwing fists over some minor disagreement is you could potentially kill someone. Even if you have no training and your punch is ham fisted and weak, a person could bang their head on the sidewalk and die when they fall over. You’ve already stated you punched several people for god knows what reason. Every one of those could have been a murder rap. On a human level, you don’t want to kill someone over a truck, or an insult do you?

    The other problem I have with your stories is you claim Ontario police questioned you after a fist fight and just let you go. Why? Because you are such a nice guy and Ontario police don’t take physical assaults seriously? What’s your secret?

    Think about this seriously for a minute. You’re obviously attached to your tough guy persona. But how tough are you really if you’ve never been tested. If you never went through the trials of training 8 hours a day, 7 days a week for years just to face a 300lbs opponent who’s been doing the same and wants to hurt you? If you want to be tough, you need to go train. Don’t be scared to face people stronger than you, you’ll only get better. You’ll also learn humility in the process and won’t start pointless fights in the street like a teenager.

  85. lollipoplover June 3, 2016 at 9:51 am #

    “and you really should take it elsewhere (there must be a forum out there for guys like you who like to puff up their chests and talk tough).”

    Captain Caveman Anonymous? Where talk of red meat, cage fighting, and lumberjacks is actively encouraged.
    Captain Cavemaaaaannnn!!!!

    This is not Free Range Manly Mans….It’s about the kids, damnit.
    THINK ABOUT THE CHILDREN and get back on topic, please.

    This frightening parenting experience happens way more often to CHILDREN (so many sad stories on here- Jess and others) that need to be shared and talked about. This isn’t right and we need to be proactive (I agree with the commenter that said it comes down to who calls the police first).

    I don’t want to read in the comments whether Warren can arm wrestle Alexander while putting James Pollock in a head lock…though the visual of this happening is entirely entertaining.

  86. Alexander June 3, 2016 at 9:57 am #

    @The Rest of the forum and Beth

    I do apologize for this thread. Part of it is human nature, but most of it is the design of this forum. This forum is not different from any other. People argue. But normally they just reply to each other within a long comment chain. Those who are not interested can hide replies and keep reading threads that interest them. This forum doesn’t have that function. But if Lenore was open to adding Disqus or something of the sort it would certainly help things. I do think a more standardized format would help the community here. But as I am not sure of any associated costs and work involved I can’t ask Lenore to do it unless she herself chooses to update it. Moderation then should not even be necessary.

    I’ve been reading this forum ever since a crazy woman demanded my ID when I was sitting on a park bench watching my son and daughter play in the distance. That was probably 2 years ago. So I am not exactly new. In that time I’ve posted maybe 5-6 times so there’s no need to act like I spam every story with off topic arguments.

    But lately, I notice in almost every posting this meathead pops in with something like “I would tune those guys up” or “You’re not strong like I am” or “If I was there, I would headbutt them off a cliff” or some other ridiculous statement. I find the best disinfectant to be sun light. I picked a low interest thread to call him out on it. Or rather what I perceived to be a low interest thread because it only had like 20 responses at the time.

    It won’t happen again in any other thread, at least from my end, so there’s no need to bail on my account.

  87. Alexander June 3, 2016 at 9:59 am #

    @lollipoplover

    That forum is called bullshido if you’re interested. Or any MMA forum really. Sherdog?

  88. Alexander June 3, 2016 at 10:01 am #

    @James Pollock

    I had a friend who had also been in a lot of fights, and had a bit of a superhero complex (and… he had trained. MMA hadn’t really been invented yet, or that’s what he would have been doing.) He was just 19 when he stumbled across a mugging, decided to step in, and stopped six bullets.

    Sorry about your friend.

  89. James Pollock June 3, 2016 at 10:01 am #

    “Warren, Alexander and James”

    You definitely have me confused with someone else.

  90. Alexander June 3, 2016 at 10:20 am #

    This is not Free Range Manly Mans….It’s about the kids, damnit.

    Manly men can have kids too. Or do you have to be a soft limp wristed man to speak here? Or is it women only?

  91. Jen June 3, 2016 at 10:20 am #

    Alexander–
    You acknowledge that your discussion with James and Warren is off topic for this post. Rather than critiquing the format of this comments section, please take it offline.

    Warren & James — c’mon guys. this is too much. Typically, you two don’t drag things out this long.

    You are all claiming to be the bigger man — the bigger man is the one who can actually walk away from this spat so that others can share — on topic. Please.

  92. Warren June 3, 2016 at 10:28 am #

    To the forum
    My apologies. I should not allow myself to be baited by cowards and punks.

  93. Paul June 3, 2016 at 10:44 am #

    I’m sure everyone has seen this at one point, but it seems particularly apt on this thread.
    https://xkcd.com/386/

  94. Alexander June 3, 2016 at 10:49 am #

    To the forum
    My apologies. I should not allow myself to be baited by cowards and punks.–

    Oh bother that was weak. You took the time to lie repeatedly and go through a whole host of mental gymnastics to deny your bullshit fairy tales before and now all you can come up with is calling me names. You think I am afraid of you or something? You’re cute.

  95. James Pollock June 3, 2016 at 11:07 am #

    “Warren & James — c’mon guys. this is too much. Typically, you two don’t drag things out this long.”

    I don’t read what he writes, and I don’t write anything to him. How can I “drag things out” any less?

  96. Vicki Bradley June 3, 2016 at 11:55 am #

    Paul, thanks for the laugh! I’ve seen that cartoon before but had forgotten about it so it was fun to see it again. Hopefully, Warren and Alexander will have a look at it and see themselves.

  97. lollipoplover June 3, 2016 at 12:22 pm #

    Since the sword fight inevitably continues and we are totally off-topic, I will just throw this out there:

    http://www.mcsweeneys.net/articles/are-you-sure-there-isnt-something-else-i-can-do-before-the-end-of-the-school-year

    Stick a fork in me…I am done with all of this end of the year nonsense. Move up days/promotions/awards ceremony/historical asshole costume day/gifts/parties. Send me another permission form for anything…it will be folded into a paper airplane and launched off my roof. Why does the countdown of days at the end of school year have to be turned into a 3 ring circus of activities? Do we really need graduation ceremonies for Kindergartners or 6th graders and awards for the B Honor Roll? What about C? Where does it END?!

  98. Warren June 3, 2016 at 12:35 pm #

    Alexander

    What lies? Proof please.

    Fairy tales? Proof please.

    Never said you were afraid of me? You have no reason, as yapping by little men like you can never provoke a physical altercation. You do make me laugh my butt off, but that is about all you could do.

    All I originally stated was seeing a person trying to break into my truck is going to get them hurt. Then like the punk you are you had to be a goof and take it up a notch.

    Get some anger management or therapy for your self esteem issues, either or both don’t matter. Or is it a case of one too many blows to the head that makes you think it is wise to challenge someone you don’t even know?

  99. Vicki Bradley June 3, 2016 at 1:21 pm #

    lollipoplover, that article is so accurate, hilarious, and well-written – thanks!

  100. Havva June 3, 2016 at 2:31 pm #

    I’ll join the chorus (on the original topic) in saying that this parent should have called the police on these dangerous vigilantes. As far as I can tell Cuyahoga county isn’t likely to judge this mom harshly for leaving the kid in the car in line of sight for 3 minutes. My usual search strings for bringing up county interpretations of neglect that might get a mom in trouble for this have all come up empty. They just keep coming back to lists of signs of true neglect like “Young child(ren) frequently left at home alone” “Frequently says he or she is hungry or starving (picks through garbage or begs for food from friends)” etc

  101. Buffy June 3, 2016 at 2:47 pm #

    @James, you know full well that you will argue with anyone over the shortest statement that you deem to be “wrong”. Everyone knows it, and you know it, so stop acting put upon when someone calls you out.

  102. Laura June 3, 2016 at 2:50 pm #

    Seriously! Alexander (and the others joining in on bickering), just stop. Just stop now, please. And don’t do it again!!!

    You. Are. Clogging. Up. What. Could. Be. An. Interesting. And. Helpful. Comment. Section!

    Thank you.

  103. James Pollock June 3, 2016 at 3:25 pm #

    “you know full well that you will argue with anyone over the shortest statement that you deem to be “wrong”. Everyone knows it, and you know it, so stop acting put upon when someone calls you out.”

    Whatever. ..

  104. Curious June 5, 2016 at 10:35 am #

    Another Urban Myth that needs busting?

    The best myth-busters use humor, irony and ridicule.

    Let’s keep these crazy stories coming and circulating and hope the ignorant wake up and smell the coffee.

    Maybe the ignorant media will catch on and help us get the truth out there!

  105. Muriel Hykes June 5, 2016 at 9:46 pm #

    Some people, obviously not parents, think we should never leave kids alone, not to shower, not to do laundry, certainly not to sleep! Some of these stories remind me of one that happened to me in 1990 or so- (so crazy people aren’t new.) We lived 3 miles from a very rural elementary school. Many times, I would run the one who missed the bus down there while the younger boys slept, played or watched TV. One time someone at the elementary school said, in a shocked voice, “You left the baby alone?”

    Hey lady, I had to give CPR to my own infant who went into a coma because I took ibuprofen while nursing. You do riskier things than letting a baby sleep every day.

  106. Heidi June 9, 2016 at 2:09 pm #

    In California, “It is illegal to leave a child 6 years old or younger unattended in a motor vehicle”. CPS is investigating me for leaving my 7 year old in the first parking spot in front of the store under a shady tree 67 degrees, with windows 3/4 rolled down on his ipad for (what should have been) less than 5 minutes until I was detained. I also got a ticket for child neglect. Apparently the police and CPS have the right to make their own laws in this state.

  107. zzmel June 11, 2016 at 5:40 pm #

    I just wonder what is wrong with people. To have some bizzare lady screaming to the kids mother is uncalled for. To have her husband coming around with histruck blocking the mother is a even more crazy. This is a confrontation possibly leading to a crime where either there could be harm or possibly the mother being killed. With all the crazies out there, you never know. Being at the wrong place at the wrong time is something we don’t look for. As far as the mother is concerned, I feel that it would have been best to take her child out of the car. Evenif it was for 3 minutes and her child being observed. You just don’t know what can happen. At one time, way back when, problems like this was rare. Something happened to me and my daughter a few years ago when we were driving my car and this guy in a van was tailgating us. All my daughter did was to turn around and lookedat him. Before Iknew it he followed us off the freeway and continued to tailgate us. My daughter being scared and I at the edge of my seat, I tried to lose him. No matter what I did even making turnsgoing down different streets, he still caught up with me. Finally, I immediately swerved in a parking lot and went into this store. As I stood, I saw his van across the street waiting. After a few minutes I was ready to call 911 but when looking out the window again, he was gone. We stayed in the stoore for 30 min. and still no van. I really didn’t know what to do. I knew we hadto get home and possibly he was waiting for us on a different street Fottunately, we got home safely but while traveling I was in fear that he was following us. If he did, I don’t know what would of happen. This was a traumatic event in a way simular with her child in the car.

  108. JS MacF June 14, 2016 at 12:13 pm #

    I was driving down Rte 3 south in Massachusetts to 93, the Boston Expressway, and the big signs used for mass messaging were all reading, “Don’t leave a child alone in a car! Even for a minute!!!”

    I thought, my god, we are really in the midst of brainwashing ourselves. I grew up waiting in the back of a car for my mom. I believe it enhanced my creativity. This is madness