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mom lets her daughter walk home. The girl’s new friend, an older, taller boy, walks home with her…and starts talking about weird stuff. One mom’s surprising and Free-Range story:
Dear Free-Range Kids: Â
My daughter is 10, our only child. She was born when I was 43 and I did not fit in with my mothering peers. I felt constantly judged, simply because I believe that kids are lot more capable than we give them credit for. Besides that, I was just too tired to micromanage her! I needed her to be strong and independent. As an older mom with health issues, I needed to know she’d be fine without me.
So first of all, I just want to thank you for how your work has helped me to be the sort of mother I want to be. Secondly, I’d like to share a chapter in our Free-Range life with you.
Our Divine Miss O goes to a school about 15 minutes away on foot, down a very busy city street, past a strip mall and across a city park with a deep pond. Since Day One she has begged to walk alone to school. At age 6, without older siblings/friends, I just couldn’t see that happening.
But rather than saying no, I outlined for her what I had to see that let me see she was ready to walk to school by herself: Looking both ways before crossing the street, crossing with confidence, being aware of time, etc., etc. We role-played every conceivable situation from the cute kitten in someone’s yard, to the older kid who tries to push her around. It was fun, funny, maddening and enriching for both of us.
Finally, to the absolute horror of all the other school moms, Miss O started walking to/from school daily, alone, rain or shine, at age 8.Â
She’s made some friends in our neighborhood… she met them walking. Prior to that, we had no idea which kids from her school , if any, lived near us. We’ve had a steady stream of kids into the house after school ever since.
She dealt WELL with the strange woman who wanted to put lipstick on her (seriously!). I almost cancelled walking alone from there on in, but read a few more Free-Range posts, and calmed down.
She learned just how close she could get to that pond in the park without falling in, and that your pretty new boots don’t look so pretty after they are soaked in sludge. (They don’t smell all that great, either.)Â
She learned to stand up for herself when boys started taking pictures of her with their cell phone… and that knocking them down may not be the BEST way (“I just got so MAD when they wouldn’t STOP, Mom!”)… and that going to another kid’s house to apologize is not as scary as she thought it would be… and the boys learned to not mess with The Divine Miss O!
She also learned you can carve an animal out of a block of snow as you walk!
Recently, the opportunities for learning grew in magnitude.
About a month and a half ago, a Grade 8 boy from her school started walking home from school with her. From my after school seat by the front window with my coffee, I’d see them pull into sight… she striding along in her relaxed way; he twice her height, matching his stride to hers. She burst in the door happy and full of chat… they talked about Minecraft (an internet Lego-type world she loves), sports, school… and The Divine Miss O felt as though she’d made a new friend. I figured he had to be a pretty nice kid to pay attention to my little girl that way. It was so cute… until she burst through the front door a week or so later, indignation radiating off of her like steam.
While the Divine Miss O had been enjoying his company, this day she took great offense to The Boy’s attempts at conversation… it was all sexual (my characterization, not Miss O’s) in nature: Was she learning Fully Alive in school (our Family Life Program taught from Grade 1-8)? How old is she? Does she have a boyfriend? Does she know what boys and girls do together (“You know you’re almost 12 and boys are going to try and do things to you!”)... a parent’s absolute nightmare.
With my heart pounding, I nonchalantly explored with her how she responded to all of this, and how she felt about it. She wasn’t phased at all, though she thought it was pretty weird that he would talk about this stuff when he doesn’t even really know her, and she repeatedly told him she didn’t discuss personal stuff outside her family (YEAH!)… “I didn’t want him to know I was uncomfortable, Mom… but I did walk a little faster!” Mostly she was just confused about why he’d start talking this way. Didn’t he know it was inappropriate?
I truly don’t know what most other people would have done under the circumstances, but I told her I was very proud of how she handled herself  and we began a new set of role-playing exercises: how to discourage an unsavory conversation, how to discourage someone from following you, how to find out more about someone without appearing to pry (I wanted to learn his last name)… and we made a plan for what she should do next: don’t walk with him if she can help it, and use the skills she learned in role-playing. In a calm, casual way (though I felt anything BUT) I did my best to give her insight into The Boy’s motives… to help her see him for the manipulative person he is… not a potential friend.
Before Christmas, The Divine Miss O had several opportunities to put our role-playing practice to good use, as we continued to discern just how serious this situation was… he didn’t always make the conversation weirdly sexual… maybe he’s just a really immature, awkward kid who is flexing his ‘man’ muscles… I didn’t want to escalate the situation without being certain there was any need to do so.
Then, this past Monday, it turned: The Boy tried to convince The Divine Miss O to leave the busy city street and to walk instead down the alley that runs parallel. When she refused to do so, he asked he if she was scared… she told him, “No!” and she really didn’t seem to be… she just already knew from past conversation that we would not approve of the alley route. He also made comments with sexual undertones to her in the hallway at school in front of other kids (which offended her greatly… she wasn’t exactly sure why, but she knew it sounded wrong). I didn’t want to overreact, so I suggested that her next step should be to invite him to come and meet her Mom (she knew exactly what I was up to and was delighted by this suggestion)… while I did some investigating of my own beforehand.
I called the school principal to ask his opinion as to how we might address my concerns. I discovered that he knows who The Boy is. He checked to confirm that The Boy has no reason to be walking all this way with my daughter… he doesn’t live anywhere near us. The principal offered to handle the situation from his end, but once again, I felt this might create fears where there weren’t any yet, so I told him I’d speak to Miss O and then get back to him… if she felt that she needed adult help to get rid of The Boy, I would let him know.
When The Divine Miss O got home from school (alone — The Boy didn’t approach her this day), we sat down together and I filled her in and expressed my concerns… particularly that anyone inviting her to stray from her usual route, and pressing her further when she declined, was up to no good… asking her what she thought.
Her first comment was, “WELL! I don’t like that he’s been lying to me!” When her Dad asked her how the The Boy had lied, “Well Dad… walking with me like he’s just going home when he’s not is LYING!” “…And he seemed nice!”
Her new plan is to tell The Boy that she no longer wants to walk with him, and then simply walk away. If he makes any more comments to her at school she will tell principal. “He’s kind of bullying me. Right, Mom?” “Yes, if he persists even though you’ve told him to stop.” “Well, I don’t need THAT kind of friend!”
We then asked her what she’s learned from all of this:
“Get to know people really well before you tell them any personal stuff.”
“Get to know people really well before you decide if they are good, or not.”
“Be careful around people until you know them for a long time.”
I didn’t think it could get much better until she scooted around the table to give me a big hug and said, “THANK YOU, Mom, for not leaving me out of the solution!”
WOW! Â For me, that one comment explains why Free-Range parenting is so important.
This situation could have instilled debilitating fear (in both of us). Instead, her confidence has grown, as has ours. AND her innocence remains intact. I want my daughter to have the world. I think we’re off to a good start.
— Divine Mom in Saskatchewan
Lenore here: You had my heart pounding there. Kudos to you and the Miss O, who handled the situation divinely!Â
What happens when an older boy starts walking a Free-Range girl home?
What I really liked about this story is the way the mother used the occasion for an open discussion. I know a few teenage girls that could use this lesson on dealing with unwanted attentions. It is great that she had the opportunity to learn this lesson early in life.
I have found that the best way to get your kids to listen is to temper your reaction as much as possible. Also give them honest, non judgemental answers to their questions, while still instilling your own values.
Exactly what Kate said. (Thanks, Kate!)
You are a stronger free-range parent than I am! The initial contact wouldn’t have bothered me either if I thought the boy lived near us. The kids in my neighborhood do mix in age quite often, and I’ve certainly never restricted my own friendships to “peers”. But the alley incident would have freaked me out! I think I’d have panicked and gone into hover mode. – Good for your daughter for being part of the solution!
Wow! That mom is my hero–as are you, Lenore! Some great tactical advice here . . .
From the start Little Miss O was part of the process. She was included in the conversations about the rules, etc.
Many parents do not include the child (soon to be an independent, sulf-sufficient adult) in conversations on the rules, why the rules are there, and different scenarios which actually have a probability of occurring.
Way to go @SaskatchewanMom
I missed the other posts on my first reply to the letter. (They came in after I had started typing, gotten called away from the computer, and then came back.) But I wanted to compliment this advice too:
“I have found that the best way to get your kids to listen is to temper your reaction as much as possible. Also give them honest, non judgemental answers to their questions, while still instilling your own values.”
I really agree that it works!
Wow, well done. You are really walking the walk of being free-range (no pun intended). It’s easy to consider myself free-range when my daughter is not even three yet – I hope I will still have the courage of my convictions when she encounters more complex situations such as this one. I have a feeling that this post will stick with me for a long time.
Lenore, I have to admit, that sometimes the never-ending barrage of “mum arrested for this, dad arrested for that” stories get to be a bit much – I’m not denying that it’s important to bring these cases up, but it’s starting to have the same effect on me as too many kidnapper stories – makes me think that these things are happening everywhere all the time. It would be really nice to balance out the bad news stories with tales like this of free-ranging in action.
Hope to see your new show on-line soon so that I can check it out too!
Your child may now be safe – and I love the way you handled this – but Miss O is probably not the first child this boy has approached, and she probably won’t be the last. I hope the school can get the boy the help he needs before he latches on to another child who doesn’t have the resources Miss O has.
Devine Mom gets “Mom of the Year” for me! Awesome! That is pretty much how me, my siblings, and my friends were raised. Maybe a little bit more rudimentary. But still the same principal. Be aware, be confident, stay the path, and know when to say NO. Also, how to kick someone in the balls, and scratch their eyes if they try to be physical. lol
This was a very positive post. I hope more parents follow Devine Mom’s lead. It can be done. And it is far more effective, than sheltering children.
Teaching children these tactics and knowledge at a very young age pays huge dividends. The sooner they learn, the sooner they will be better off. Trust, children are much smarter, attentive, and observant than many parents give them credit for. Just like we wouldn’t enroll our kids late when it comes to school, like at the age of 10. Why wait to teach them about the world and how to navigate through it?
@Karen, I wouldn’t jump too soon to a serial predator assumption. It’s quite possible that this boy has a crush on her and is expressing it in extremely inappropriate ways. Yes, he certainly needs somebody to talk to him about this. But I would not assume he’s targeting or has targeted children in general, and not that he has a childish crush on this girl and, probably because of how accessible things like pornography are in our culture, is expressing it in very inappropriate ways.
I think this mom handled this so well. We do not do young women a service when we “protect” them from every advance from men. The reality is, young women are going to get hit on. They have to know how to handle it without either freaking out and assuming the guy is a sexual predator/pedophile/pervert or just going along with what the guy is asking for. I was tall and developed early. By 12, I was mistaken for a student teacher in my middle school. I had older guys (and sometimes older men) hit on me for all of my teen years. I don’t think any of them were pedophiles, because if they were they wouldn’t have been hitting on a person who was 5’6″ and in a D-cup. I don’t think any of them were predators, because they never forced anything on me. But, I certainly had to learn to respond: to simply walk away or, when necessary or appropriate, to verbally respond. If we don’t teach girls how to say no to sexual advances, by either assuming that they are too weak to do so or that the men involved are so dangerous that we have to involve the police, we are taking a lot of power away from them.
I’m reminded of my reply to a foopdela on some homeschooling lists a decade or more ago, in which some dubious character was approaching girls in a mall with some dubious proposition – which was bemusement at how little would be left of a fellow who proposed whatever it was to the original three Free-range Girls: Jennifer Tanner, Heather Scott, and Alyx Holden.
Ya know, if every parent raised their kids like this, the ‘predators’ (real or wannabe or just exploring) wouldn’t have a chance. The kids would all know how to deal with ’em and there’d be no targets available.
Good job, mom!
What a story. Miss O is ready for the world!
Wow, what an amazing free range parenting story! So powerful. I am so impressed and proud of that divine mama!
Lenore, I agree with Helen’s requests. I get a bit overwhelmed with the scary stories of parents being arrested. I tend normally to think the best of my community to allow me to free range parent my children, but those stories are sobering, and make me wonder how far gone our culture is. I could use more positive examples like this one, of a mom letting her kid walk to school without other parents calling CPS!
By the way, I also appreciate the comment that Chris S made, about some of the powerful self-defense moves kids can learn. I actually took a self-defense class when I was in fifth grade. It was huge confidence booster in general, for instance just doing the exercise where we pushed hands against hands with a partner, one of them asserting themselves and the other shouting “No!” I learned how to say no with power! And to walk home from school with a naturally confident stride.
Thank you for sharing this powerful story, Lenore!
An 8th grader is just an 8th grader whatever horrible intentions he had. Meaning, he has behavioral problems and a lack of understanding of what’s appropriate that hopefully someone can deal with before anybody gets hurt. This is not a defense of bad behavior, just an assertion that it’s about the behavior of a child. 8th graders are still children.
Like Helen, I would love to see more stories of free-range parenting in action.
I came here to help shed my new mom neurosis. But the thing that really has kept me coming back, are all the comments from other parents that get into how they prepare their children for the world, and how they know the time is right to let go.
This story provides an extra degree of clarity and focus. Both in seeing what boundaries and teachings protected Miss O, in a tough situation. And in seeing how Miss O’s self protection skills grew through this incident. I wonder how many girls going off to college have had such important talks with their parents?
I really appreciate this story. It’s easy to get scared when a difficult situation comes up, but these situations WILL come up – and do we want our kids to be surprised and alone dealing with problems for the first time after they leave our care?
I think I might have gone a little farther and strongly encouraged my daughter to get another friend walking home with her, just so she wasn’t alone with this boy while we figured out whether it was going to be an issue. I always believe in safety in numbers, even for adults. But clearly things worked out well even without that (or maybe there were already enough other kids around that such an exhortation was unnecessary). Not only is Divine Miss O safe, she’s gained confidence and resources to deal with future situations. It’s a fantastic outcome!
What a slightly terrifying and boldly empowering story! thanks so much for sharing. I give you so much credit for teaching your daughter to stand up for herself, without becoming paranoid and losing faith in her ability to do so.
Dear divine miss o’s mom: can I be your new best friend? I am the 52 year old of a 9 year old girl, also an only, who feels much the way you do. You are doing things soooo right!!! I’m trying but my daughter isn’t quite so mature or quick to listen. Thank you for this story…. For so many reasons
I’m certain I could not have been as patient with the process and resolution. I do think that the “temper your reactions” is such great parenting advice. I wish I had been able to realize this sooner in my parenting life.
I do wish we’d had the final PS though. Did The Boy stop walking with her at her suggestion alone?
I do think that it would have been fine to allow the Principal (or Parent) to get more directly involved though. The Boy had already crossed lines of appropriate behavior. It might be good for him to realize that adults were aware of his actions, rather than just Miss O.
But wow — impressive handling and restraint.
Excellent! Good job, Mom. I am also an older mother and refuse to be bullied by fearful, overprotective helicopter parents. Believe me, I have had my share of visits from DCFS and the police. Honestly, the police are much easier to deal with than DCFS (they live in fear of lawsuits but the police KNOW the laws). Undeterred, I remain a staunch free range parent who has done and continues to do what Divine Mom does. All the busybody neighbors et al don’t give a damn if your kids are capable young people or adults and aren’t going to be around to clean up the mess they try and create by interfering in how we parent. Stay the course, Divine Mom and well done!
I echo everything Helen said!
“If you don’t start working on decision-making by the time they’re 9 or 10,” he says, “there’s no way they’ll be good at it when they’re 14 and the decisions they’re making are really important.”
I saw this comment on a blog. I thought I’d share it because it expresses what I’m afraid of. I’m afraid of my child not being very good at making decisions. Helicopter parents criticize that free rangers are lazy and they themselves are better parents because they are afraid for children.
I’m afraid too. I’m afraid of them not learning to be self reliant. I’m afraid that WHEN problems come up, my child will become angry, depressed, and full of anxiety because they don’t have the confidence to solve problems on their own!
This is awesome (and that girl seems full of spunk)! I also feel like there needs to be a shout out to the principal as well. He could’ve taken the situation out of their hands entirely (like banning everyone from walking home), but he put the trust in the child and parents to do what they were comfortable with.
Wow! I want to be a friend of that Mom and learn how and what she did to raise such a smart, strong and confident girl even prior to when she let her daughter walk by herself.
Thank you for sharing your story!
Dear Mom of Miss O – I think this is one of the best things I have ever read since I gave birth to my first child 16 years ago. A delight! A blast of fresh air! My daughter is 13y (I have 16 yr boy twins too) and I have struggled with telling her the possible realities of life vs. sheltering and protecting her innocence. What my daughter has taught me over the last 13 years is that SHE has a mind and a body and she needs to know how to control both. The ONLY way she can learn how to deal with these sorts of situations (should they happen) is by doing exactly as you have done. Talk about it. Role-play. Trust her instincts. Instincts go before being polite and using good manners. I will ALWAYS support her if she tells me (or feels it) that something or someone just didn’t sit well with her. That one took a little convincing, which surprised me. All that and we are both taking Krav Maga (street fighting/self defense) classes together, which can’t hurt 😉 I see way too much ‘hoping for the best’ and not nearly enough ‘preparing for the worst’ in this generation of parents. Good Job Mom!
I’m all for Free Range children, but there also a point in time when the police need to be notified. Why wasn’t anything done about the fact that this sexual predator was following and stalking her each day? Sexual predators come in all shapes and sizes, and clearly this should have been reported to authorities. I think it lacked judgement to let this predator continue to walk this girl home. Yes, I want my kids to learn to work through their own problems, but if this boy was carrying a gun would the parents have just said, “work it out on your own.”As a trained Marriage and Family Therapist, it is quite apparent that significantly more people are affected/traumatized by sexual predators than guns and both can be just as devastating. (Even if the perpetrator is a teen.) I think this article sets a bad example for other parents to turn the cheek to a potentially dangerous situation. Not to mention, I think this article really hurts the “free range” cause.
I hope that if my daughter is ever in this position I too can handle it so well. I am very inspired!
I think it would have been great if she had instructed her daughter to tell this boy to buzz off right when the conversation got weird. The daughter seemed uncomfortable, and kids switch walking partners a lot, anyway.
But I’m glad it all turned out all right in the end and that she got to stick up for herself.
I just want to echo previous posters’ requests for more positive free-range parenting in action posts. I would hate for the site to fall into the same trap that the media does, which is to sell the negative; in this case, the bad things that happen to non-helicopter parents. The free-range “success” stories are great to read. Perhaps a call for contributions is in order?
Also, Terri — nothing in the letter suggests that the kid was a “sexual predator.” He is a 12 year old boy acting like a 12 year old boy. And Miss O is 10, so it’s not like he was trying to get his jollies off with a 1st grader. Odds are he wanted to walk with her in the alley to kiss her, not to rape her.
I know you think saying that you’re a “trained Marriage and Family Therapist” makes you seem like you have credibility, but all it does is tell me that you have have a skewed perspective, because you deal day in and day out with the serious problems that require your help, not with the everyday normal. What this kid needs is someone to teach him how to interact with the opposite sex in a socially appropriate way, not for people to label him a sexual predator.
Good grief, if he is a sexual predator than half the kids (girls included) at my kid’s middle school are sexual predators based on what I have seen.
Terri – also, given that you are a “trained Marriage and Family Therapist” I am surprised that you assume that this situation was traumatizing for Miss O, rather than empowering. Maybe you would be a better therapist if you based your assessment on the actual person’s experience, rather than making other people’s experiences applicable to all.
You are clearly not for free range parenting if you think in terms of how things “can be” as bad as handling a gun(!), rather than looking at them for what they are.
And what do you expect the police to do? How will introducing this boy into the criminal justice system help anyone? How about talking to his freaking parents first if need be? Seriously, are we living in 1672? Did I miss the memo where seduction is back to being a crime?
Honestly Terry, I fear people like you more than sexual predators. You’re the one who will put otherwise innocent people in jail for making you uncomfortable, and you’re the reason we need websites like this to begin with.
I just wanted to echo my thanks for sharing your story – what a great opportunity to teach your daughter a myriad of important life lessons… and kudos to you for the way you handled it!
I’m glad the mom is teaching her daughter to use her judgment, but honestly, I’d be inclined to react a bit more strongly in this case. We’re talking about a 10-year-old girl and an 8th grade boy (so probably 13 or so?). He is most likely much bigger and stronger than she is physically. Given the alley episode, his persistence, and the fact that the boy is obviously sexually imbalanced or at least out-of-control, I’d be concerned about the possibility of forcible assault.
I really liked the story. While my daughter has never had an incident (that she related to me) as concerning, I communicated many of the same ideas with her as you outlined.
Terri – I had to chime in on the gun comment. I am an avid 2-nd amendment proponent, and not the NRA type but the Gun Owners of America type. And yet, I have never shot a gun. :-/
I was thrilled when my then-16 year old daughter’s boyfriend taught her how to shoot. I have always intended to have her (and the other children) take a class and have the opportunity, but never got around to doing so. He is now a Marine and fulfilling his 4 years. I have since met his parents and 3 brothers and all open-carry. I don’t understand the fear of simply being in the presence of a gun.
This is a great story!
However…
When I was growing up, this girl’s experience with this boy would probably “not” have been shared with her mother. The girl would have simply told her best friends, and they would have offered advice and probably told about what they did in a similar situation.
Andrea and Anonymous Mom – Thanks for posting insights that some reading these comments apparently don’t understand.
Angela said: ” I don’t understand the fear of simply being in the presence of a gun.”
It’s the same as being in the presence of a car. They are always starting themselves and driving over people.
Or…
Being in the presence of a table setting… Those forks are always flying up in the air and poking people.
@Angela
“I don’t understand the fear of simply being in the presence of a gun.”
And, of course, note that we’re only *supposed* to be afraid of guns carried by ordinary citizens. We’re considered absolutely paranoid to worry at all about police carrying guns.
WOW! Thank you, everyone for the encouragement and support. It means more than you can know!
There is so much I’d like to say in response to many of you, and I will do so, but first I’d like to offer an update to the situation as it continues to play out.
As one poster mentioned, we remain concerned about the possibility of The Boy approaching other girls less prepared to manage the situation, and we remain watchful. As The Boy is himself a child (pointed out by yet another poster), we want to be cautious about how we address our concerns. I think one of the mistakes people make is in reacting rather than responding to situations that make them uncomfortable, and as a result end up feeling disregarded and ineffective at the least, or at the worst, doing more damage than necessary to all concerned. We want to be clear about what sort of response is required, and we want to be taken seriously when we do take further action.
It’s been two weeks since the “alley” incident. In this time, The Boy has avoided the Divine Miss O entirely, in and out of school. This leads us to believe that at the least he is very aware of the inappropriateness of his actions and based on Miss O’s vehement “no” he expected trouble to be coming his way… and he has the ability to make better choices… or he’s just confused. He has also stopped walking home this way.
However, just two days ago, The Boy did attempt to walk with Miss O, and as planned, she delivered her message of no longer wishing to walk with him. He, of course, questioned this and was promptly told exactly why his company was no longer acceptable to her: “you keep talking about inappropriate stuff even though I told you to stop!” He didn’t chase her down, or try to prolong the conversation, and he has kept his distance since.
Should The Boy approach the Divine Miss O again, we will then ask the principle to step in, and involve The Boy’s parents. Should it come to this, once The Boy’s parents have been notified, we will then discuss our concerns further with the school principle, and if it seems important to do so from our perspective, we will contact the police. Even if he does not approach our daughter again, we will be discussing this further with the principle to see what can be done for The Boy.
I, too, want to thank Andrea and Anonymous Mom for pointing out what many people reading fail to recognize: that there has been nothing actionable by law done here in relation to the The Boy’s behavior. At this point he is a confused and inappropriate 13-year-old, who needs some guidance, and hopefully we can address this in a way that respects his dignity as a human being, while also ensuring that other children less able to stand up for themselves are protected.
@Terri: the “trained Marriage and Family Therapist”: you can’t possibly know what being a free-range parent costs me on a daily basis, nor can you from your skewed perspective, say with any clarity what should be done in this specific situation… while I appreciate and share your concerns, I can’t condone your judgment. I am a survivor of childhood sexual abuse, and I know a predator when I see one. I know just how careful one must be, and if you read my account carefully, you would have noted that, “I did my best to give [my Divine Miss O] insight into The Boy’s motives… to help her see him for the manipulative person he is… not a potential friend.” I also know from personal experience that over-reacting, and acting without clear cause and purpose, can do as much damage as any actual physical harm. I refuse to impose my fears and daemons on my daughter. I have no words for how grateful I am for the years of really good therapy that have allowed me to live my life with a true sense of freedom, and I will not give that up, nor will I damage my daughter’s sense of moving freely and joyously through the world unless and until I have clear cause to do so.
Contrary to thinking her irresponsible, I am also very grateful to Lenore for publishing my account here, because it is here that I realize just how far I’ve come in reclaiming all that was taken from me. I hope this helps others to see that moving through life with love, joy and freedom will always win over fear and daemons.
@Eric S: rest assured, where and when to kick, bite, punch and scream, and how hard is precisely part of our free-range curriculum!;) The Divine Miss O is a warrior princess. Her Dad and I have had to work *much* harder to teach her that the first line of defense is assessment and avoidance wherever possible! 🙂
This mom is more thoughtful than I am, when a 14 year old boy started coming to our door asking if my 9 year old could come out and play, I put a stop to it right away. I told her it was creepy and she needs to only be outside with him if there are other kids playing with them. It did the trick, but maybe calling him creepy wasn’t the right approach,lol.
As the mother of grown children I want to commend those of you who participate in raising “Free Range” children. I must admit it saddens me that so many have succumbed to fear to the point that what was considered normal when I was raising my children is now seen as a form of neglect or abuse. The real abuse is in not preparing children to navigate the world on their own. Kudos to you!
This may be bit off topic, but I noted “Divine Mom’s” reference to “warrior princess”. As a long time watcher of the adventures of Xena, that is high praise for Miss O.
To borrow a line from another TV series I’m familiar with, may Miss O. and her family “Live Long and Prosper.”
@Kate: you are so right! I believe that getting my Divine Miss O to engage positively and to share so much with us is the direct result f learning (against my nature!) to “temper my reactions” The odd times that anything becomes about my feelings/opinions (reactions) about what is going on, she disengages. Thank you for making this point!
@Helen: you needn’t worry about having the conviction to stick to your free-range guns as the challenges increase. If you are free-range now in the small things (even when they feel huge), your daughter will show you the way as she grows… and every child grows differently. You will recognise the fruit of your current efforts to create freedom and independence in your daughter’s life, and you will recognise where/how you need to build on the foundation you are now laying. Trust me, as much as you may want to at times, she won’t let you go backward.
@Reziac who said, “Ya know, if every parent raised their kids like this, the ‘predators’ (real or wannabe or just exploring) wouldn’t have a chance. The kids would all know how to deal with ‘em and there’d be no targets available.”
AMEN!:)
@Kathy: I think some of Miss O’s “maturity” (oh how I chuckled at that) comes from our allowing her to fail and dig herself out (with our support, guidance and encouragement) on a regular basis. Raising strong free-rangers is about, I think, calculated risk… even in the situation I’ve described above.
The boy is 13. If he were in high school, or not from her school, our immediate response would have been different. If Miss O wasn’t walking home on a very busy, public street our response would have been different. If she hadn’t already demonstrated a strong ability to handle herself well in challenging situations, our response would have been different.
We have the wiggle room in this situation to let it play out some naturally, and allow her to build her confidence and mature in her ability to handle difficult people and situations. And this is our habit… wherever possible, we give her room to handle things before stepping in to see if she will sink, or soar… and even when she’s sinking, before stepping in we remind her that she also knows how to swim… we’re here to help, but she has to do the work… and she reaps the rewards of doing so.
Over time she has become a lot more inclined to listen to us right off because she’s already had the opportunity to learn “the hard way” that we are right about things more often than not. Free-range is a two-way trust/respect building process.
@Renee Miller: THANK YOU for your kind comment! 🙂 RE: “struggling with telling her the possibilities of life vs. sheltering and protecting her innocence…”
I struggle with this daily, too… for me free-range does not mean childhood should not still be magical and free from worry. Since very young I’ve used the guideline of allowing Miss O to lead our conversations. I routinely ask, “why do you ask that?” or “what about this interests you?” before responding to her questions/concerns… questions which give me some sense of her understanding of a situation, or her true line of inquiry before I respond directly and honesty to her curiosity and predicaments (honesty doesn’t mean full adult disclosure).
For example, in this situation we haven’t suggested there may be anything “sinister” about The Boy’s behaviour. We’ve anchored all conversation in the arenas of “dignity” “respect” “good friend” “trust” …and simply validated what she already felt… that something is “off” about this boy’s behaviour… and we’ve talked about why it’s very important to “trust your gut.”
One day (likely too soon for me) the Divine Miss O will come to a full understanding of the nuances of this situation, and by then she will be empowered enough to feel wise, rather than frightened.
@Kay re: a 14-year-old wanting to play with her 9-year-old: I guess I don’t find that intrinsically odd. I grew up playing with kids of all ages… I had younger friends to whom I played mentor and got to feel wise and responsible, while I also tagged along behind the kindest girl 4 years older who made me feel special and “big” and I also had a lot of friends who happened to be boys… come to think of it I also had little old lady ‘friends’ …and I have encouraged the same for Miss O… she has friends of all ages. I don’t think age should automatically be the determining factor in friendship. I hope you’ll reconsider allowing your son to make friendships with people of all ages… kindred spirits come in all shapes, sizes and ages.
@Michelle re: encouraging Miss O to walk home with other kids… we would have certainly done so, if that were and option at this time… the kids we got to know who used to live near have moved… but there are dozens of kids streaming home at this same time from four different schools… ours is a VERY busy street. This is why we could afford to allow some lea way.
Honestly, while we hate the tone of this situation, we are grateful for every opportunity given us to teach and explore the harsher truths of life in a safe and objective way.
Personally, I think if safety is our primary goal we are setting the bar way too low. The main point underlying free-range parenting is that no matter how hard we try, we cannot ever make the world truly ‘safe’. The best we can do is teach, encourage, and allow our kids to grow through every challenge on to the next.
In my opinion, good judgment is not a given that suddenly kicks in along with maturity. It is a muscle that needs to be exercised and something that will develop as challenges are faced and conquered.
@Donald re: “I’m afraid of my child not being very good at making decisions. Helicopter parents criticize that free rangers are lazy and they themselves are better parents because they are afraid for children.
I’m afraid too. I’m afraid of them not learning to be self reliant. I’m afraid that WHEN problems come up, my child will become angry, depressed, and full of anxiety because they don’t have the confidence to solve problems on their own!”
Well said! I regularly remind myself that I’m not raising a child, I’m raising tomorrow’s adult. 🙂
@Bob Davis: THANK YOU! …I think Trekkies are natural free-rangers, don’t you think? May you, too, “Live Long and Prosper.â€
I admire your courage in letting an 8-year-old walk home alone, not because of the extremely low risk of stranger abduction, etc., but because of the much more likely fallout from other adults with less courage.
But I question how you reacted to the child’s subsequent experiences, since the reaction assumes that slightly older boys are more dangerous than strange women offering to put makeup on little girls.
Rather than utilizing the boy’s interest in sex as a way to explore the subject openly and in more depth, mom seemed to have a prior agenda (sexual play is bad, sexual desire is bad, sexual pleasure is bad), which the child was already aware of and dutifully expressed obiedience to.
For example, the boy’s attempts at conversation: “Was she learning Fully Alive in school (our Family Life Program taught from Grade 1-8)? How old is she? Does she have a boyfriend? Does she know what boys and girls do together (“You know you’re almost 12 and boys are going to try and do things to you!†could have been met with specific answers and explanations of the criteria for possible alternative answers, instead of condemning the whole topic as “weird” and a “nightmare.”
Separate surveys suggest that two-thirds of women today are sexually dysfunctional, and there is good reason to believe that is due to anti-sex education in childhood. Parents of girls should wonder if they are setting the stage for future sexual dysfunction by sending anti-sex messages to growing girls.
The boy’s behavior was not unusual in my opinion, and more open dialogue would be useful to explore exactly what he had in mind, and to explain why certain physiological limits to sexual experimentation in childhood are necessary.
It’s possible that all he wanted to do was kiss her, and that would have been fine as long as she was free to refuse, and he was aware that any contact below the belt was off-limits.
“If you don’t start working on decision-making by the time they’re 9 or 10,†he says, “there’s no way they’ll be good at it when they’re 14 and the decisions they’re making are really important.†I disagree… you need to encourage decision-making as soon as they start to reason, which I first saw at age 4. I agree with @The Divine Miss O’s Mom, that good judgement is a muscle that has to be exercised to grow and develop.
While I didn’t experience the motivating abuse of @The Divine Miss O’s Mom, I did have the example of my MIL, who had the presence of mind at age 15 to save herself while being marched by Nazis to certain death. I couldn’t imagine a situation in which my kids would be so desperate, but I wanted each to be prepared to survive alone by age 15. It was a powerful motivator, and I was happy my MIL saw all of them as independent thinkers by that age.
Awesome….Just plain awesome.
To “The Divine Miss O’s Mom”.. You have class, courage, a good story, a great corollary to FRK, some other solid comments and just a cool head in general. As much as we all wish we were “free range”, I think we’ve just possibly be introduced to one the better mentors we could have met. Please ignore any negativity and/or critics.
I am also in the camp that there is nothing wrong with a 14 year old playing with a 9 year old. I never got along great with kids my own age. Because I am a Sagittarius. So I often either had older friends or younger friends of both genders. Never caused a problem. Would it be creepy for siblings of different ages to play together? No. Well statistically they are more likely to be raped by a sibling than another neighborhood kid but you would think nothing of two siblings with that age difference playing together.
@Andrea, Terri did not assume that this situation was traumatizing for Miss O. She said, “Significantly more people are affected/traumatized by sexual predators than guns and both can be devastating.” She was speaking generally about potential trauma. Putting Terri’s job title in quotes was a bit hostile, I think; it indicates that you don’t think much of her job or that you think she’s a liar. But you take your insults to a new level when you give Terri advice on how to be a better therapist; are you serious? You don’t even know the woman. I won’t even get started on how offensive it is for you to say that you fear people like her more than sexual predators. Terri never proposed throwing this boy in jail; I think perhaps you read some things into Terri’s comment.
Your comment “You are clearly not for free-range parenting” is exactly what gives me pause about considering myself free-range. To some free-range parents there is no acceptable range of beliefs in free-range parenting. If parents are not in lock step with their beliefs, those parents do not belong in the movement at all. I would not have handled the situation the way Miss O’s mom did. I would have accepted the principal’s assistance when he offered it and allowed him to contact the parents (I think it would be helpful for them to be aware). Does this mean I am not free-range enough for you? Do you want to start excluding parents who are less hands-off than you and limit the movement’s impact? I hope not.
This is amazing. This should be printed and handed out to every middle grade parent as the right way to do this.
I think being calm is key. If you’re dramatic and hysterical, your kid will be too. This boy could very well be just what the author thought, a little awkward and curious and overall harmless. And not only is the daughter learning something, but he is too: when you are creepy and pushy, girls won’t like you.
My kudos to you, and to a principal with his head on straight too! It’s so much more difficult to let your kids handle tough stuff. I can remember the anger I felt the first time my kid came home and cried because some kid wouldn’t let her play. As much as helicopter parents enjoy making all kinds of sacrifices to be the best parent, it’s actually harder to be free range and NOT step in immediately. This story was inspiring and it made my day!
Christine – Terri absolutely did advocate jailing The Boy. She specifically stated that the police should have been called. Why else would you call the police except to have him arrested? The police are not there to fix social problems. Their SOLE job is to investigate crimes and arrest criminals. If she doesn’t believe this a crime and The Boy a criminal suited for arrest, the police have no place in this dicussion.
In fact, she calls The Boy a predator – based on absolutely no evidence whatsoever – indicating that she does in fact see him as someone who should be locked away as I don’t know anyone who wants “predators” loose on the streets.
The outrage at her comment is not towards possible other methods of dealing with the situation – I’d might have let the principal talk to the parents as well – but on her pronouncement of The Boy as a sexual predator based on the facts given here and having never met him. That is highly irresponsible, especially for a professional.
While I don’t doubt the Terri is what she claims, I do highly question her profession if this is her response. I do however find the over-emphasis of sexual behavior extremely common in the counseling profession so not at all a surprise. And I do worry very much about that attitude. I worry that my child’s normal behavior is going to be viewed as predatory or that my child will have a negative experience such as this that will be blown way out of proportion and her made to feel a victim rather than empowered. Both are extremely common in the counseling field these days.
Please oh please, can we hear more from this lady? Reading her response to the comments only increased my admiration.
The heartiest of congratulations to both mom and daughter.
And the highest of praises – her thanks for not being left out of the solution. You can’t buy that with money.
Of course that poort kid is probably a shy and awkward boy – and dealing with him as such is the way to go, instead of instantly branding him a criminal.
I get the distinct impression here, that dealing with the current situation was made infinitely easier by what had already paved the way starting much earlier in the girl’s life. She sounds pretty astute for her age – and that skill had to come from somewhere.
This is rather a heartwarming story – good antidote for all the poisonous micromanaging and infantilizing that goes on out there.
I “played” (hung out) with girls, all within a year or two of my age, when I was 12-13.If my memory is reasonably correct, I was as appropriate as one could expect from any boy that age. I really did just like being friends with girls, even if the occasional crush was part of the mix. Looking back, I realize their parents assumed I was likely a rapist freakazoid and were really uncomfortable with the idea that I was friends with their daughters.
Anyway, the point I’m making is that I would hope that parents would be comfortable with inter-gender relationships, while of course being mindful of potential problems.
I’m in awe of your thoughtful approach to all of this, Divine Mom. I also love that you refer to your daughter as “The Divine Miss O”. Having that image of her in your head…I bet it affects how you treat her all the time — in a divinely empowering way. (Yes, I know that might seem like a little thing in the grand scheme of this very, very powerful post, but it struck me!)
Thanks for sharing this post; I have to say it widened my thinking about a couple of aspects of parenting.
Let me just put this into the mix.Scene:suburban house. enter young teenage boy.mother at desk ,sorting bills. “how was your day ,Eli?” “Okay, I guess” “doesn’t sound so great.tell me about it” Eli,silent,sits. “That bad,Huh?” “Mom.you know how you tell me I can talk to you about anything?” “Yes,you can” Silence,then “Well,I think I did this stupid thing and really messed up.” “Yeah?” “there was this girl I used to walk home with sometimes,and”
I think you get the idea. Hopefully Eli has a mom like many of those who have written here.That is what it is going to take I think,along with good dads and assorted relatives ,friends,neighbors,teachers-Ah well,hopefully we will get there someday
I find it really interesting how so many people can read the same account and take a way such very different impressions. What readers on any forum seem to forget with great consistency is that the whole truth/experience of any human encounter cannot be fully expressed in the space allotted by a comment box or blog post. I always take responses with a clear agenda/filter of their own with a grain of salt, even while I continue to communicate in an attempt of clarity and sincere communication/understanding.
@sexhysteria (interesting moniker… no agenda there, I imagine 🙂 )
RE: “I question how you reacted to the child’s subsequent experiences, since the reaction assumes that slightly older boys are more dangerous than strange women offering to put makeup on little girls.”
I’m not sure how you came to this conclusion. I saw *both* the lipstick woman and The Boy as *equally & potentially* dangerous. Both seem to me to be clueless to social norms and boundaries. Both attempted to impose a personal agenda on my child. Both were actual strangers… my Divine Miss O knew neither of them before they approached her. My internal reaction was the same: “the free-range stuff stops NOW.” My external reaction was the same: “Okay… learning experience here we come… how do I handle this so my daughter remains safe, and how do I use this opportunity to continue to encourage my daughter to grow strong and confident in her ability to navigate this sometimes strange world we live in?”
What makes The Boy more *potentially* dangerous is that he has on-going access/proximity to my child (my daughter has never again seen lipstick lady… and had she, I’d have immediately called the police), he suddenly and somewhat aggressively inserted himself into her life, he was pushing an agenda (uninvited) with which my daughter was uncomfortable, and (in my opinion) exercised poor judgment in how he was relating to a child emotionally and psychologically much younger than he is… there is a world of developmental difference between a 10-year-old and a 13-year-old.
RE: “Rather than utilizing the boy’s interest in sex as a way to explore the subject openly and in more depth, mom seemed to have a prior agenda (sexual play is bad, sexual desire is bad, sexual pleasure is bad), which the child was already aware of and dutifully expressed obedience to.”
You’ve read an awful lot into my attempt to consolidate the week’s long situation into a manageable account… and sexual awareness has nothing at all to do with my reason for sharing my account with Lenore. This whole encounter with The Boy has generated hours and hours of conversation in our home… not the least of which is all things sexual… a conversation that has been on-going for years now. My Divine Miss O’s reluctance to engage in a sexual conversation with The Boy specifically (much to our chagrin, she is not always so reticent) comes from the knowledge that sex and her body are both priceless gifts to be shared in context… and at age 10, walking down the street with a boy whose last name she doesn’t know, to whom she’s only spoken to twice before, and who her parents have never met, is not the time or place. The Boy has not earned the right to such a conversation, so she was justifiably confused and bothered by his line of inquiry and disturbed by his lack of respect for her sensibilities, and I’m very proud that she is strong enough to repeatedly assert a boundary that reflects her comfort levels… her thoughts on the matter were none of his business. The parental nightmare for me, and for many others, is in the fact that my daughter was been pushed to go were she did not want to go… not because she’s blindly obedient (how I occasionally wished this were so, lol), but because she sensed something “off” and because she’s been raised to think and evaluate for herself.
Contrary to your assertion, in my experience and based on The Divine Miss O’s friendships with boys and girls of all ages (this is not the only 13-year-old boy she occasionally socializes with), The Boy’s line of inquiry, manner and general demeanor over time *is* unusual and “weird”. More importantly, Miss O thinks it’s weird, and my responsibility as a free-range parent is to support and encourage *her* to act in her own best interests. Had The Boy ever come to my door and introduced himself, I most certainly would have inquired as to the nature of his interest in keeping company with my girl.
A great example of how you can’t childproof the world, only worldproof your child. Thanks for posting this great story showing how free range parenting is a process, not a one-time decision but many small increments of trust and guidance. I am so happy this mom let her daughter walk to school and start developing social skills at such a young age. I sometimes feel my kids learn more “real world” skills from commuting to school independently than from actual school lessons.
The group of walkers in our neighborhood is quite close(been walking/biking together for 6 years) and they look out for each other. We recently had an incident involving a 5th grader(I call him “Lil Shit”) who was throwing snowballs at everyone as they walked despite the many pleas from fellow walkers to stop throwing snowballs. After several weeks of him not listening, one of the kids finally dropped his bag and made a snowball and fired back. Several of the other kids who were hit by Lil Shit’s snowballs also fired back. Lil Shit ran home crying. He told his mom, who called the school principal. Mom demanded these kids face disciplinary action, calling them bullies.
Word got out among the walkers about several of their own getting called to the principal for a meeting about the snowballs. I only heard about it after the fact but some 15 of the walkers showed up during the meeting with the principal to defend their friends and share that they were also hit by Lil Shit’s snowballs and while retaliation was not the answer, Lil Shit was the cause of the entire altercation because he did not respect their wishes. The principal asked Lil Shit if it was true that he’d been hitting other students with snowballs and he answered yes. The students were dismissed and the principal dealt with Lil Shit and his most embarrassed mother. Of all the accomplishments they’ve achieved this year, I have to put defending their friends at the top of the list.
I really appreciate that Miss O’s mom also kind of looks out for The Boy. Like some people showed, it would have been very easy to call the police on him which would have landed him in a lot of trouble, possibly for the rest of his life. Since he is a 13-year-old boy, the perfect age to 1) be beyond curious about sex and 2) do stupid stuff, that seems way too much of a punishment, though I agree a good conversation is probably a good idea.
When I was 9, I went to the park to get long grass and herbs for our rabbit and guinea pig. Little Brother was supposed to come with me, but we had a little argument so I went alone. At the perfect location for long grass and herbs, a teen boy (~15?) walked around masturbating, as I discovered when he turned around. I didn’t leave, I was there with a goal after all. He didn’t leave either.
I did however keep my distance, both physically and in the conversation (he started talking to me, but of course wasn’t interested in ME), to not encourage him in any way but not offend him either. Overall, he seemed insecure to me.
Was it scary or traumatizing? No. It was weird though, and I came home still wondering about that boy.
Anyway, I was calmer than my mother about it 🙂 Don’t think she actually called the police though.
@sexhysteria: The girl is 10 – I think it’s completely normal for her to think all things sexual are weird! Plenty of time to change her mind 🙂
‘@Karen, I wouldn’t jump too soon to a serial predator assumption. It’s quite possible that this boy has a crush on her and is expressing it in extremely inappropriate ways. Yes, he certainly needs somebody to talk to him about this.’
I agree
It’s interesting how people are quick to assume the worst. Even us Lenore followers can be guilty of worst first thinking.
Men go through a hormonal cocktail at a young age. This is normal. This also plays havoc when they are trying to learn social skills.
I loved the sitcom, 3rd Rock from the Sun. It’s about 4 extraterrestrials posing as a family by taking on human form in order to study earth. Tommy (Joseph Gordon-Levitt ) plays the role of Dick’s adolescent son. (John Lithgow) He complains, “WHY DID I HAVE TO BE THE TEEN? I’M GOING THROUGH PUBERTY! I’M GOING OUT OF MY MIND!â€
John Lithgow then reads his thoughts and jumps back horrified. He yells, “WHY THAT’S DISGUSTING!â€
Perhaps every boy at age 12 should be put on the sex offenders list.
@Donald: For offending tissues?
@Donald: Don’t give them any ideas
@Amy: what a wonderful way to honour the sacrifices of others! I pray that none of our children have to face the magnitude of challenge that confronted your MIL… may you and yours be blessed in every way!
@Tiny Tim: I really appreciate your viewpoint, and I’m glad you’ve taken the time to share it… it is exactly this possibility that enables us to show restraint and caution in this situation… we do not have a clear enough picture to take any specific action. While The Boy has not presented as entirely without suspicion, he doesn’t seem to be an imminent threat to anyone.
Like you, I too “would hope that parents would be comfortable with inter-gender relationships [of all ages], while of course being mindful of potential problems.”
I also doubt that parents thought that you were “likely a rapist freakazoid and were really uncomfortable with the idea that I was friends with their daughters….” Had they really thought so, I’m pretty sure that you would be more certain of that opinion 🙂
The Divine Miss O “plays” with kids of all ages, and she hangs out more with boys than girls… she is a warrior at heart and prefers sports… the grade 6-8 boys know she is an awesome soccer player and welcome her easily onto any team… and she’s very proud that she can “take a ball” with the best of them (we have a good dental plan just in case). Her opinion is respected, and she is often the voice of reason when things get heated. She’s also the one who picks up and dusts off the little ones when they get a bit trampled on the playground… she has a set group of k-3 kids who come looking for her at recess for hugs.
To me, this is what community should look like. It really isn’t that long ago when kids of all ages (regardless of sex) played/hung out together… that is how I grew up.
@lollipoplover: THANK YOU, too for sharing your delightful experience. That is what neighbourhoods should look like… and is just how all the Lil Shits of this world learn to be less so.
Free-range is about once again allowing the village to *appropriately* raise our children, and in turn be enriched by the experience and responsibility.
Where we’ve somehow got it all turned around (to my mind) is that instead of focussing on our collective responsibility to our children, we’ve become hyper focussed on any one parent’s responsibility for their children.
Instead of empowering and encouraging parents and children both, we’ve instead empowered the village to judge and condemn. Through fear and a lack of reason, we’ve absolved the village of that collective sense of responsibility to our children.
Your snowball story gives me hope that the pendulum will swing back the other way… and good for that principal for helping it swing!
@ michael carpenter: I LOVED this: “Scene: suburban house. enter young teenage boy. Mother at desk, sorting bills. “how was your day, Eli?†“Okay, I guess†“doesn’t sound so great. Tell me about it†Eli, silent, sits. “That bad, Huh?†“Mom. You know how you tell me I can talk to you about anything?†“Yes, you can.†Silence, then, “Well, I think I did this stupid thing and really messed up.†“Yeah?†“there was this girl I used to walk home with sometimes, and….â€
I, too, think this is what it is going to take… “along with good dads, and assorted relatives, friends, neighbors, teachers….”
…and it is our hope that in showing restraint in this situation, focussing on our daughter and empowering her to set clear boundaries and speak up for herself, rather than attacking and judging The Boy, that we can be part of this scenario becoming the norm sooner, rather than later.
Regardless of his intentions, The Boy does not seem to me to be beyond redemption. I don’t see how treating him like a criminal without clear cause would enrich our community, or make it safer for anyone. And, if he doesn’t have parents like you’ve described, we are missing an opportunity to fill the gap, and be the village.
@ Deb: THANK YOU! It’s funny you should zero in on my pet name for my daughter… and you’re right… thinking of her as The Divine Miss O, and keeping that image of her in my head DOES affect how I treat her all of the time… I see her as a gift I get to unwrap daily.
I also believe how we think about our kids, and having a clear image of them in our heads at all times, is at the heart of being free-range. What you believe your child to be is what you will reinforce through your parenting. Again, it’s not about safety. It’s about competence.
@ Papilio: thank you for sharing your (horrifying to me) experience. You’ve reinforced my own sense of The Divine Miss O’s reaction… she is really not as bothered by any of this as we are… she’s not afraid, and I don’t see any reason to imply to her that she should be… if we were to involve the police, that is what we would do.
I think you’ve articulated an important perspective in all of this: “he is a 13-year-old boy, the perfect age to 1) be beyond curious about sex and 2) do stupid stuff”
I really appreciate that Miss O’s mom also kind of looks out for The Boy. Like some people showed, it would have been very easy to call the police on him which would have landed him in a lot of trouble, possibly for the rest of his life. Since he is a 13-year-old boy, the perfect age to 1) be beyond curious about sex and 2) do stupid stuff, that seems way too much of a punishment, though I agree a good conversation is probably a good idea.
When I was 9, I went to the park to get long grass and herbs for our rabbit and guinea pig. Little Brother was supposed to come with me, but we had a little argument so I went alone. At the perfect location for long grass and herbs, a teen boy (~15?) walked around masturbating, as I discovered when he turned around. I didn’t leave, I was there with a goal after all. He didn’t leave either.
I did however keep my distance, both physically and in the conversation (he started talking to me, but of course wasn’t interested in ME), to not encourage him in any way but not offend him either. Overall, he seemed insecure to me.
Was it scary or traumatizing? No. It was weird though, and I came home still wondering about that boy.
Anyway, I was calmer than my mother about it 🙂 Don’t think she actually called the police though.
@ Papilio: thank you for sharing your (horrifying to me) experience. That park and pond I spoke of seem much less safe now, lol.
Honestly, though, you’ve reinforced my own sense of The Divine Miss O’s reaction, and my own inclination to allow her to lead our response… she is really not as bothered by any of this as we are… she’s not afraid, and I don’t see any reason to imply to her that she should be… if we were to involve the police, that is what we would do.
I think you’ve articulated an important perspective in all of this: “he is a 13-year-old boy, the perfect age to 1) be beyond curious about sex and 2) do stupid stuff”
…and you validate my conviction that boys can really just be this dumb. THANK YOU!
@ Donald: RE: “Perhaps every boy at age 12 should be put on the sex offenders list.”
Oh how this made me laugh! THANK YOU! …and as another poster pointed out, I know some girls at this age who could be included in this possibility.
I really appreciate that Miss O’s mom also kind of looks out for The Boy. Like some people showed, it would have been very easy to call the police on him which would have landed him in a lot of trouble, possibly for the rest of his life. Since he is a 13-year-old boy, the perfect age to 1) be beyond curious about sex and 2) do stupid stuff, that seems way too much of a punishment, though I agree a good conversation is probably a good idea.
When I was 9, I went to the park to get long grass and herbs for our rabbit and guinea pig. Little Brother was supposed to come with me, but we had a little argument so I went alone. At the perfect location for long grass and herbs, a teen boy (~15?) walked around masturbating, as I discovered when he turned around. I didn’t leave, I was there with a goal after all. He didn’t leave either.
I did however keep my distance, both physically and in the conversation (he started talking to me, but of course wasn’t interested in ME), to not encourage him in any way but not offend him either. Overall, he seemed insecure to me.
Was it scary or traumatizing? No. It was weird though, and I came home still wondering about that boy.
Anyway, I was calmer than my mother about it 🙂 Don’t think she actually called the police though.
@ Papilio: thank you for sharing your (horrifying to me) experience. That park and pond I spoke of seem much less safe now, lol.
Honestly, though, you’ve reinforced my own sense of The Divine Miss O’s reaction, and my own inclination to allow her to lead our response… she is really not as bothered by any of this as we are… she’s not afraid, and I don’t see any reason to imply to her that she should be… if we were to involve the police, that is what we would do.
I think you’ve articulated an important perspective in all of this: “he is a 13-year-old boy, the perfect age to 1) be beyond curious about sex and 2) do stupid stuffâ€
…and you validate my conviction that boys can really just be this dumb. THANK YOU!
@ Donald: RE: “Perhaps every boy at age 12 should be put on the sex offenders list.â€
Oh how this made me laugh! THANK YOU! …and as another poster pointed out, I know some girls at this age who could be included in this possibility!
WHOA! Sorry about the repeated posts… I have no idea what happened there….
The question of what is appropraite sexual behavior in childhood is very complex. William N. Friedrich wrote a book “Children with Sexual Behavior Problems,” which I criticized in depth in a series of blog posts called “Is Your Child a Sex Maniac?: https://sexhysteria.wordpress.com/2014/05/01/is-your-child-a-sex-maniac/
“she is really not as bothered by any of this as we are…”
I guess that’s because you imagine all the things that could have happened to your precious child (and people are often more afraid for others than for themselves) after hearing about the situation, yet all she saw (and *she* was there) was the actual situation, right then and there.
You read about the boy in the park and think it was horrifying, I remember it was broad daylight and that, despite what he was doing, he was no more threatening to me than any other ~15-year-old boy. (With a brother that age you learn their sense of humor doesn’t always match yours…)
@ Papilio: I think you’ve highlighted Lenore’s main point with regard to free-range… when we are bubble-wrapping our kids and hovering over them trying to keep them safe, what we’re really doing is projecting our fears and adult agendas onto them; and instead of making them feel more safe, we are inadvertently telling them they can’t trust their own perception and instincts, which in turn undermines their confidence. Helicopter parents communicate an intrinsic lack of faith in their kids innate competence in even the most grave situations. One of the things I appreciate most about being a free-range parent is having the opportunity to discover just how smart, resourceful and insightful my Divine Miss O is. I don’t think helicopter parents have the same opportunity to delight in their children,
I’m pretty sure that had I had the encounter you had, I wouldn’t have been horrified (because of what I now understand as an adult), but more weirded-out… uncomfortable with a public display of something I regard as private. It would also make me nervous… as it does now… because whatever else you want to say about the situation, anyone, masturbating in public at any age and making it obvious to another person, is demonstrating seriously skewed judgment and little sense of boundaries. That’s really where the concern comes in for me… it isn’t ever about the sexual nature of the intrusion, it is about the lack of and respect for boundaries and the sensibilities of others, and hence lack of trust… but understanding that is where the power is. At the same time, I’m not going to let people who disregard good sense and decorum (in the minority) decide how big or small my world should be.
As harsh as this may sound to some, and though I continually pray that my daughter will experience only the best of life (all the while realizing this is unrealistic), I know that having something ‘bad’ happen to her will not be the end of our world. The potential traumatizing usually happens in the aftermath and in how I, as her parent, may choose to react.
I can let her range freely because I know that whatever life brings to our door, we will handle it together with grace and courage and determination to get to the other side WELL. I’m not parenting from fear, I’m parenting with faith and hope.
Ya know… what a lot of parents seem to forget is that we don’t need to trust the world in order to embrace free-range, we need to trust our kids, and they need to know we have faith in them.
The more you focus on, and build, mutual trust and resect between you and your kids, the less you have to fear, and the more freedom you can all enjoy… what the world is or isn’t doing becomes irrelevant to how you move through it.
The degree to which you feel comfortable with free-range ideology is a direct measuring stick of your own confidence in having raised your kids well, and a reflection of the quality of your relationship with them.
“anyone, masturbating in public at any age and making it obvious to another person, is demonstrating seriously skewed judgment and little sense of boundaries”
Yes, he was definitely in the wrong, shouldn’t have done it in the first place, should have stopped/left when he turned around and saw me. But I can’t think of anything else to say or think, I just find myself shrugging. And if someone would ask me what the worst thing was that ever happened to me in my happy, rather uneventful life, this would definitely not be among the things I would think of…
@ Papilio: I’m afraid I’m not making myself as clear as I’d like…
I totally agree with you… the “horror” happens in the mind of me, the parent… I suspect that at that age and time I would have reacted much as you did… and I suspect The Divine Miss O would as well, at this juncture… and I’m glad for that.
I wonder who/what that strange 15-year-old grew up to be… I hope… better.
…I appreciate you putting in perspective as you’ve done… if weirdos in the park make our top 10 list of worst things, we are fortunate, indeed. It makes trying to avoid all sense of offense to our children’s sensibilities an absurd goal… we can’t possibly guess what may offend or traumatise them… and every child will be different.
What those desiring to be free-range parents need to remember is that our children may not perceive any given circumstances as we do. We need to use that to our advantage by allowing them to come to their own awarenesses in their own time, and not impose our fears and concerns upon them. This is why I like role playing so much… Miss O always sees it as ‘play’ and never gives much thought to the scenario in any real sense… unless and until she needs the wisdom she has acquired through the process.
“As harsh as this may sound to some, and though I continually pray that my daughter will experience only the best of life (all the while realizing this is unrealistic), I know that having something ‘bad’ happen to her will not be the end of our world. The potential traumatizing usually happens in the aftermath and in how I, as her parent, may choose to react.”
My 11 yo is very tall for her age and starting to develop and looks much older than 11. We went to the local farm for a Halloween festival this past fall with a few of her friends. They went into the corn maze and encountered some teenage boys. One attempted to *grab* my daughter. She kick him in the balls! When she came out of the maze, she told me about the encounter, and I was horrified…yet proud that she stood up for herself and didn’t let someone take advantage of her.
lollipoplover —
After reading your recent post, I can’t help but want some clarification on several aspects of that post and an earlier one.
In the first one about the snowball thrower, you said:
“After several weeks of him not listening, one of the kids finally dropped his bag and made a snowball and fired back.”
1.) Why in the world did it take these kids “several weeks” before anyone threw snowballs back at him?
2.) It also seems somewhat odd for a group of friends walking to school in the snow “not” to have any desire to engage in a snowball fight along the way. Friends often do that sort of thing, unless their parents are all helicopters and think “someone might get hurt.”
I suppose you could say, the kids are just very long-suffering kids and aren’t the kind who enjoy a snowball fight.
But then today, you tell about your 11 year old daughter and some teenage boys, and you said “One attempted to *grab*” her, which is somewhat vague. Also, an “attempt” is not success, yet she kicked him in the balls. She didn’t wait several weeks.
Also, kicking a boy in the balls is not admirable behavior when there are other options, like running away, for one. Where did she learn that sort of thing? Surely you wouldn’t tell a son that if a girl ever made an “attempt” to grab him, he should just hit the girl in her breast?
@ lollipoplover: Yea! Another warrior princess!
…I LOVE that she came out of the maze righteous and victorious. I hope you gave yourself a pat on the back for creating a parenting environment in which she grew up STRONG and confident enough to take care of herself when she needs to.
I wonder how That Boy explained why he was walking funny when he came out? 😉
I’ve been pondering about my own worst 10 list… I think others may be interested to know (since I put it out there) that my actual sexual abuse doesn’t even make my top 25 worst things. People (and our children are people) are a lot more resilient than we usually give them credit for being.
@ The Divine Miss O’s Mum – thank you for your note to me – I appreciate your encouragement and what you say makes sense. You’d better be careful or you will become the Lenore of the North!
“Friends often do that sort of thing, unless their parents are all helicopters and think “someone might get hurt.â€
I can attest to good snowball fights among friends around here as I got hit by one this weekend getting my mail. Large plow mounds make great forts for snowball fights. This is a fun winter activity…but would get students in trouble on our school grounds. The walking paths around our school are still school property. They won’t even let the kids touch the snow at recess or go in it. The difference here is this kid was trying to provoke others into getting in trouble (he succeeded) by blindsiding them from behind. But they handled it by themselves. It’s when the parents get involved that things usually get messed up.
“Where did she learn that sort of thing? Surely you wouldn’t tell a son that if a girl ever made an “attempt†to grab him, he should just hit the girl in her breast?”
Honestly? The movie “Miss Congeniality”:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZNJwxJXr2jc
I teach my son to respect women and not grope them when they say NO and GET AWAY, repeatedly. After that, all bets are off.
And faced with a flight-or-fight response, she was in a MAZE. Not so easy to get away. I’m proud she stood up for herself and didn’t let someone take advantage of her. It’s honestly one of my top fears for my daughters. Statistically 1 in 4 women will be sexually assaulted in her life.
But she handled it herself and was not traumatized, just a bit wise. I highly doubt this boy will be trying to grab the breasts of cute pre-teen girls in corn mazes again.
@ By lollipoplover… great explanation… not that I think you needed one (loved he YouTube clip). 🙂
The kids here are also not allowed to engage in snowball fights… they can build forts, but no snowballs. How sad is that? Such a waste of good snow. 🙁
I, too, had been wondering of Steve had ever been in a corn maze… your daughter’s predicament is exactly why we role play situations where avoidance, or running away, won’t work.
To note… one of the hardest things we’ve had to teach is the line between wanting to raise a friendly, well-mannered kid who can also hold her own physically, if necessary.
Kids, by nature, want to be friendly and look for the best in others. Free-range kids also need to know that certain behaviours on the part of others (like even *attempting* to touch in an unwelcome way) preclude any need to be polite.
If we’re going to trust our kids to make good choices, we also have to trust that if they’ve acted with aggression, the situation warranted it.
Again, Steve, the whole truth/experience of any human encounter cannot be fully expressed in the space allotted by a comment box or blog post.
Nice story. Girls should be empowered to say NO to any situation they find uncomfortable and boys should be taught how to read signals. Was this boy a potential predator? Possibly, I suppose, but he’s probably just an 8th grade boy, inartfully trying to figure out if Miss O was interested in him (and the developmental differences between 10 year old girls and 13/14 year old boys is not very large!). Miss O made it quite clear she was not and he seems to have complied. This male/female back and forth takes a lot of practice to master and many of us never master it at all. I congratulate Miss O and I hope the boy is one step further down the road to his maturity.
The Divine Miss O, Warrior Princess, Lenore of the North – this starts to sound like a computer game 🙂
@The Divine Miss O’s Mom: We’re on the same page 🙂
I still sometimes wonder what has become of that boy. I hope he turned out okay.
“our top 10 list of worst things”
Hmm, this evolves quickly, haha. I only brought it up because you mentioned something ‘bad’, and indeed, who says it’s bad, from the kid’s POV it could be just something. I admit I’m surprised your abuse doesn’t make your top 25, but… that could mean 2 things… I hope you meant it wasn’t that traumatizing rather than that your life is filled with death and doom!
@ Papilio: “who says it’s ‘bad’, from the kid’s POV it could be just ‘something’…”
WELL put! Keeping this in mind, while also “tempering one’s reactions” is, I think, the first tenant of free-range parenting.
…Because of my own history (or fears, or insecurities, or needs, or comfort levels… whatever it is that is pushing my buttons in the moment), I have always been careful to get my Divine Miss O’s take on her experience first, and make THAT the beginning point for whatever happens next.
Helicopter-parenting is parent-centered (the whole impetus is the parent’s need for safety and control and to be seen as a ‘good’ parent)… the child is seen as an extension of the parent.
Free-range parenting is child-centered… it is the child’s need for a sense of mastery and freedom and control over their life experience that drives decision-making… The child is respected as a separate and competent individual in their own right.
RE: “I’m surprised your abuse doesn’t make your top 25…”
I thank you for your kind words… the abuse was ‘bad’ (all abuse is), but so many other things were worse… like not being believed by those who were supposed to watch out for me, being blamed for it after the fact…and then there was the general death and doom that thrives in such an atmophere. 🙂
I shared this only to make the point that no matter how aware you are of how ‘bad’ things can get, and what sort of fears/scars of your own you carry, free-range parenting is possible.
…and the more confident, savvy, experienced your children are (and skilled in problem-solving) the less likely they will end up in situations where harm can befall them… and should real harm befall them anyway (as opposed too the normal bumps and bruises of being human), they will already have all they need to overcome it with fling colours.
I had a lot physical freedom, so I know how magical childhood can be… out of my house was the only safe place in my world… but I had to acquire the rest on my own.
It’s not what we protect your children from, but what you teach them to believe about themselves that saves them from all that would change who they are.
@V: “boys should be taught how to read signals”.
Boys cannot be easily “taught” how to read these kind of signals, they have to learn it “on the field”, which also implies messing up from time to time. On top of that let’s not forget that girls need to learn reading boys’ signals too. I’m sure both protagonists of this small adventure learned something useful.
This has to be one of the best examples of free-range parenting I’ve ever seen, equal parts terrifying, thrilling and inspiring. Thank you. It’s given me a lot of food for thought.
@bsolar I agree completely. “Taught” may not have been the best choice of words; perhaps “learn” and “be advised”, but nothing replaces “experience”!
@Divine Miss O’s Mom: “Helicopter-parenting is parent-centered (the whole impetus is the parent’s need for safety and control and to be seen as a ‘good’ parent)… the child is seen as an extension of the parent.”
Yes! 🙂 There’s a reason I call it anxiety disorder-by-proxy…
“I shared this only to make the point that no matter how aware you are of how ‘bad’ things can get, and what sort of fears/scars of your own you carry, free-range parenting is possible.”
I think this is an important point – and not just this, but also the realization that even IF (BIG if) a child gets actually abused, it’s still not the end of everything – not that I’m saying it was nothing! Or that everyone reacts the same. But you show it did’t destroy you either.
It makes the lack of balance in helicopter-parenting even more obvious: parents who spend half their life preventing something that most likely wouldn’t happen anyway, at the cost of almost everything else.
Poor girl. I remember the exact moment when all my friends that were boys became ‘sexually’ aware. It really changes those friendships! One day your playing stick ball and the next day those boys who thought you were ‘one of the guys’ want to take liberties!
These are conversations we should all be having with our children and earlier than any parent is ready for! At least, emotionally 🙂
This year has been an eye opener for me. My sweet little boy and his peers are somehow inexplicably on the verge of puberty (apparently it’s happening a lot earlier) and while I cringe constantly at the on going dialogue that is now in our household, I’m very glad that staying level headed means my son comes to US instead of his peers for counsel.
We’re all learning new lessons in this house! It’s not alway pretty (ig “Mom, So and so said so and so’s mom works on a pole! Or so and so said I’m sexy) but at least it’s an open conversation. Kudos to Miss O and her Mama!