Down in Brisbane, Australia, they apparently have changing rooms where parents — not just moms — can change their kids’ diapers.
But one mom saw a dad in the room and screamed bloody murder. Reports dtfkdfnazf
the Brisbane Times:
An embarrassed father left a shopping centre parents’ room with his naked son in his arms after a woman declared the room was “only for mothers” and told him to “get out you sicko”, according to a second mother who witnessed the exchange.
Tamika Ives said she came to the man’s defence, bringing him back to the change room where he had left his belongings and told the abusive woman that she would “100% back the dad up” after the attacker threatened to call security.
As thrilled as I am that this young mom, Tamika, stood up for a fellow human who happens to be (yipes stripes!) MALE, the rest of the story is depressing:
The 18-year-old posted about the incident on Facebook and was shocked by the number of people who had seen fathers face similar situations.
Ms Ives said she shared details of the incident on the Sunny Coast Community Board Facebook group after witnessing other women staring at fathers in parents’ rooms and mumbling rude comments under their breath.
The initial confrontation happened at Kawana Shoppingworld about a month ago when Ms Ives took her nine-month-old daughter Savannah into the parents’ room.
And here’s the worst part. The crazy, screaming mom “also threatened to call security and allege the man was staring at her children if he didn’t leave the room.”
That’s right, she was going to accuse him of being a pervert, just because she could. Talk about carrying a deadly weapon! That’s what a false accusation is, a weapon that could be used to shatter a man’s life.
Of course, she didn’t end up doing that, so we don’t know if she really intended to pull the trigger. Let’s hope she was bluffing. But let’s also hope that by Tamika bringing this rank prejudice to public attention, people will realize that it is not perverse for parents to be in the parents room, even if they happen to be dads. – L
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How dare a dad pretend to be a competent, caring parent, the pervert!
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Hmmm. I watched this morning as a couple of pre-teen Mexican-American aunts changed their infant nephew’s diaper. What should I have screamed? The Mamá was busy.
Stories like this really make me angry. I am glad I have not experienced something like this because I think I would defend myself and my children from being attacked by authority by smashing that lady into a puddle. She would find a foot in her face so fast that she would not even have time to call the authorities. And it would not stop until she was unconscious either. I would not want her attacking me as I tried to leave once I finished with the diaper change. It’s called self defense or defense of another. Just because she is trying to sic a gun toting security guard or police officer on me rather than attack me directly makes no difference, it is still an attack.
In liberal terms, wouldn’t this crazy mom be considered sexist?
I have been in stores and malls in Houston with “family” facilities, and the posted signs make it clear that a parent of either gender can be in there tending to a child’s needs. I think these are also available at airports.
In protest, I think these men should start changing their kids on the tables in the food court.
Some places only have changing areas in the girls room so the idea of a dad doing it seems odd. But there is no call for this kind of behavior and making a scene.
In Canada there are many “family” restrooms where BOTH moms and dads can change diapers and feed baby. My husband took paternity leave and stayed home with both of our infants for fiscal reasons. He never reported any dirty looks or accusations. But then -that was 8 years ago….
Could be the man was staring at her children because they were running around misbehaving.
I wonder what this woman would do if she needed to change her baby at the Holyoke Mall. The changing table is not in either of the restrooms but is instead located outside of the restrooms between the two restrooms.
I’m disappointed, but not surprised by the story. Being a primary care giver while male is a different experience.
It is full of joys sometimes. Sometimes you have a licence to do things a little differently from most parents, without much judgement. Wrinkled uniform school uniform shirts are no big deal. Letting little kids use the big kid slide at the park, well, that’s just what dads do. You can be a little more free-range.
There are disappointments too, like trying to find a damn diaper changing table in the men’s room, let alone a clean one. And there are weird expectations and responses you get from people while just doing regular stuff with your kids, like people asking if you are doing a favor for your wife, or if it’s your turn to “baby-sit”, or if you can really handle three kids all by yourself. Or going through an experience like the one in the story, or worse.
For dads of sons and daughters, a family changing room is a huge help. Yesterday I took the kids shopping and my 3-year-old threw up all over the mall floor. I had to get him cleaned up, and I needed my daughter to give me a hand holding things and getting our things back together. There was no mumbling or weird looks, thankfully. It would have been a mess if I had been kicked out of the family rest room.
I have a broad generalization about gender roles to share, I know there are a lot of exceptions, but articles like this bring it to mind. I hear moms all the time talk about how women aren’t “good moms” unless they are stressed out with difficult-to-manage schedules for the kids and a ton of chores and tasks and projects to manage; women are “good moms” when they manage to do all this by themselves. And I hear these moms say that their husbands/partners don’t help or can’t help or he is just another “child” to care for. Dads who take on child care responsibilities and the “mental load” in whole or in part (like single dads, widowers, stay-at-home dads, and equal partners in the home) somehow aren’t “real men” in this generalization. They are exceptions or desperate or damaged people or perverts or something else. People whose views fit this generalization might mean well, but it just boils down to “a woman’s place is in the home”, which is a pretty lousy view on gender roles.
If I had a magic wand to change expectations, I’d waive it so that women don’t have to feel maximum stress and maximum guilt to be “good moms”. Moms shouldn’t have to bear the sole responsibility of using family rooms and changing diapers or washing vomit off their kid’s jacket. And I would make it just normal and expected for men to have child care responsibilities, it shouldn’t be praiseworthy, and it shouldn’t be a sign that a dad isn’t a “real man” somehow. Dads who lack meaningful child-care responsibilities should be the exception, not the rule.
Raising kids is challenge enough without all the BS expectations, stress and guilt.
Am I understanding correctly? These “parent rooms” are not bathrooms, they’re just like a parent lounge with changing facilities, right (sort of like Babies-R-Us has here in the U.S.)? So this woman wasn’t even objecting to sharing a bathroom with a man, just having to change her kids with him in the room. Do I have that right?
You can search the incident and find a dozen or so Australian newspapers with the article, and most of them have comments sections linked. In most cases, people acknowledge that this women is the fringe of society(given the support in comments), but there were also plenty of comments from men where women have called security and police on them.
So, I have no doubt that this woman was capable of pedo accusations if it suited her mood at the time.
Thank you Chicago dad. Make it a point when I go to the cilities that have changing areas in the men’s restroom to thank them for providing those. I live in the u.s. Where sometimes it’s hard to find a facility like that especially in a smaller town. I’ve come across truck stops in my travels on the highway that provide these facilities and I always go out of my way to thank the store or facility for providing them. I agree with the rest of your sentiments as well, we as dads should be put on some kind of pedestal for doing what is supposed to be our jobs
Dienne: Preferably, on the table where the hateful woman is dining. And yes, I think you have that right.
There is a sicko in this story. Just not the one she thought it was.
And people wonder why the suicide rate among young men is increasing….
” people acknowledge that this women is the fringe of society”
Unfortunately, so are the police – way too often.
Maybe if we got rid of the stereotype that dads are nothing more than “cute” parents who contribute nothing. You know, like in Parents magazine or the 9gazillion other places where dads are sidelined as actual parents. This is only acceptable as long as we make dads “non parents” and mom the only “real” parent. This isn’t about crazy people, this is about sexism as it is accepted in our culture.
Sam and Chicago Dad, I just read an article in the Economist that addresses some of the ideas you are expressing. https://www.1843magazine.com/features/the-man-trap
I don’t agree with all of it, but the article definitely made me think about the pressure that society puts on men-parents. It’s different from what women-parents encounter but maybe not such a walk I the park either.
During our baby-rearing days, my husband and I liked to place bets as to which public places would provide changing tables in the men’s rooms, challenging the assumption that changing diapers is solely “women’s work.”
So basically guys can’t win. Either you’re a sexist pig for assuming that this task belongs only to the “gentle sex,” (or a Dummy Daddy stereotype who botches the whole operation with duct tape), or you’re a pervert for trying to do it yourself in public.
“During our baby-rearing days, my husband and I liked to place bets as to which public places would provide changing tables in the men’s rooms, challenging the assumption that changing diapers is solely “women’s work.†”
We carried an easily washable mat with us. And we taught the boys to stand while changing diapers. In the South USA there are very few changing tables in men’s rooms. (Oddly, truck stops are an exception–they all have changing tables in men’s rooms.)
“So basically guys can’t win.”
Pretty much, yeah. And that feeds the “Dummy Daddy” thing. If I’m going to be treated like Homer Simpson regardless of level of effort and success, or even threatened with a lawsuit for helping raise my kids, why bother trying? Raising kids is hard–why put in the effort if the only reward is to be treated like a screw-up at best and a criminal at worst? Fatherhood is basically a minefield under crossfire these days, and the easiest way to handle it is to act like a child. And it doesn’t help that people can literally threaten to commit libel/slander against the father without any consequences.
For my part, I’ve always remembered a lesson my grandfather taught me: There’s no such thing as “men’s work” and “women’s work”, only work. Who does what is up to each couple to decide. My grandfather was a welder/machinist who grew up on a farm that used horses to provide horse power; he fit every definition of “manly” for his time. He still did the dishes, swept the floors, and did a lot of his own laundry, because that’s how he and his wife divided the chores.
“Raising kids is hard–why put in the effort if the only reward is to be treated like a screw-up at best and a criminal at worst?”
I’m going to assume you didn’t mean that quite like it sounded. I mean, the reward of parenting has nothing to do with how other people treat us, does it?
If the guy was looking at her kids it was undoubtedly with pity for them having such a swivel-eyed psycho as a mother.
When my son, now 4, was a baby I asked the lender of a local diner if there was a changing table in the men’s room so my husband could change the baby. He just laughed and said, “No! Haha, that’s YOUR job!” Sorry Pal, my husband and I aren’t living back in the 50s. It’s sad that this mentality still persists.
*owner, not lender. Thank you autocorrect.
Family rooms are normal in Australian shopping centres (and I presume the rest of the western world?). They generally have partitioned and curtained alcovees for breastfeeding mums to have some privacy – but dads are very welcome in them (and I have chatted with the odd dad during a nappy change).
My husband went into a woman’s toilet to change our firstborn daughters nappy because the male toilet didn’t have a change table.
I changed my daughter on a mat on the floor of the mall, not inside a change room, and was criticized for it. It was in a corner, not close to any store, it was quick, it was on a mat, so the floor didn’t get dirty from me, but people could see it. What do you think? The change room was on the other side of the mall and I also needed an elevator to get to the other floor. Often you had to wait in line for the change table to be free, and changing on the floor was always easier and safer – my daughter couldn’t fall. I didn’t do it near the food court or near a store. I didn’t do it all the time, but I did it once, when I was exhausted felt like it was hard for me to walk all the way to the change room, a few weeks post partum. I didn’t think it was an issue – but I was in new mommy mode, that it was all about milk and poop, so maybe today I would see it differently.
I wonder what she would have done if he’d said “thanks for offering to change him! I’ll wait outside until you are done,” and held the naked kid out to her.
Fathers shouldn’t be allowed to change their baby’s diapers in the change room. That’s for mothers only! Also, anyone that doesn’t have white skin should sit in the back of the bus. The front of the bus is for whites only!
I’ve been there. My older daughter, who is almost four, has been out of diapers for ages now, but the younger one (one year old) still need them (obviously).
I’ve gotten plenty of dirty looks, and more, from women when they’ve seen me changing my daughters’ diapers, or escorting them to the bathroom.
It doesn’t help that I’m quite a bit older than the typical father of toddlers (I’m literally old enough to be their grandfather).
I get the dirty looks when I take the older girl to the park and sit on a bench while she plays with her friends. Often enough a woman will approach me and say, in a self-righteous tone, “ummm, adults aren’t permitted in this park without children.” When I reply that I’m here with my daughter, some have demanded that I point out which child is mine. One even then went over to my daughter and asked her to point out her daddy, so that she could verify that I was, in fact, there with a child.
It’s really f***ing annoying. So far, I have managed not to lose my temper. But I think everyone will understand that it’s pretty annoying to be basically accused of being a child molester.
“In protest, I think these men should start changing their kids on the tables in the food courtâ€.
@Dienne
I like this idea. Not to actually do it but to do something else. As you can see from my last post that sometimes I like to be facetious. (In the last instance I was a narrow-minded obstinate a$$hole) I’d tape a sign in the parent’s room.
“This room is for mothers only. Fathers must change their baby’s diapers on the tables in the food court.
I really do believe there should be laws passed to punish people like this crazy screaming woman. You know, accountability. Consequence of action. Any woman, or anyone, accusing a man of perversion, MUST provide PROOF, not her word. Actual PROOF. Otherwise they will be liable for what they accuse the person of. It will at least cause morons to stop and think before speaking. Or else they get fined or charged. Enough is enough with these people (especially women), who freak out at every man that smiles at their kid, or is around children period.
I’m glad that didn’t happen to me, over 20 years ago when I did the same duty as a parent. Is this the kind of reputation some American women want? To trick men into sharing child care duties and then try to send them to prison for sex crimes? A “woman’s right to choose” should not include simply pointing a finger at a man and sending him to prison.
And good for the nice woman who spoke up. We all need to speak up for what’s right, when the loud nutcases start up like that. If we don’t speak up, we’ll end up with more radical mission-from-god people in society running things.
“Is this the kind of reputation some American women want?”
The story is from Australia.
This mom sounds like she has a mental disorder or extreme paranoia of males. Wonder how she got pregnant in the first place. I personally love to see male parents out and about with their kids more and more. I secretly wish this dad dropped a shitbomb dirty diaper in this mom’s bag on his way out as a prize for her acting like a douche. Crazy people in this world!
I also hope that women like this aren’t raising sons.
Yeh, in Australia the change rooms are deliberately separate for men and women to change babies. While mothers probably do use them most, I’m sure Dads do use them and without incident in the main. So the reaction is surprising. By and large I think women would see a man changing a diaper (we call them ‘nappies’) and go, okay, there’s nothing he ain’t seen here and he’s about his business and I’m about mine, and apart from exchanging pleasantries, there’s nothing interesting here. If it does feel challenging for a woman, mostly I suspect, the woman would wait outside until the man completed and exited with a happy baby.
That is absolutely bizarre. My family is Canadian and American, and while I appreciate the “family” bathrooms that are becoming more common in North America (usually a larger single bathroom with a changing table), when we spent time in New Zealand and Australia a few couple years ago, I *loved* the parents’ rooms that are common across both countries. It seemed totally obvious to us even as foreign visitors that these facilities exist specifically for *parents* to take care of their kids – some even had little activity areas clearly intended to entertain preschoolers while the parents were changing or feeding babies, microwaves for warming bottles or food, chairs in curtained alcoves for nursing mums, etc. They were fantastic. This woman sounds totally nuts.
I am all for fines for creating false accusations., we need to stomp out the behavior period. Also lets shift this new mindset of all men are pervs. Some of them are, most are not, and most are just dads spending time with their kids nothing more nothing less. I do wonder if someone like this is a busybody who has this urgent need to do something. To make up stories to fill this need to be a hero and a do good things. If there is nothing to save a child from they will make it up on the spot. I don’t get this hyper vigilance mindset, that kids are in constant danger of pedos.
If you want to be a hero there are a bunch of folks in Puerto Rico who can use the help. And since our “beloved” president seems to believe despite the fact few have clean water or electricity they don’t need our help they probably if he gets his way need more help.
“I am all for fines for creating false accusations., we need to stomp out the behavior period.”
I’d go further, I’m all for punishing a deliberate false accusation like this the same as the victim would be punished were the accusation correct.
So in this case, life on the sex predator network, and probably several years in prison and a lifetime restriction of being anywhere within several hundred meters of schools, playgrounds, and toy stores.
It always seemed to me that diaper-changing was one of the baby-chores that dads were most likely to do, even if the mom does everything else. It’s well-defined, doesn’t involve any decisions, and takes a finite amount of time. The only problem is that it’s gross, but hey we men like dirt, right? *grunt*
Here in the UK the expectation is that both sexs should be able to access baby change facilities. So you generally have 3 choices when providing them.
1 provide baby change tables in both mens and ladies toilets
2 provide a totally seperate baby change area (normal in bigger malls and such)
3 put the baby change table in the disabled toilet (normal in smaller places)
An actual false accusation involves making untrue statements to authorities. I don’t think punishing people for saying stupid things about other people in public is the kind of law we want to empower our governments to do. If it rises to the level of harassment, there are already laws for that.
Sorry, I worded that badly: the kind of thing we want to empower our governments to do.
pentamom, You’re right, simply saying hateful things is unlikely to get a criminal charge. But she was threatening to lie about him doing pedophile activities to her kids if he didnt leave. Thats an accusation hat could easily ruin his life.
I dont think you can have that kind of rule of ‘prove it or you get the punishment’, not a blanket rule anyway. But there are existing laws for filing a false police claim, which could be used with a bit more discretion, in cases where the liar is obvious.
In a number of restrooms there are these plastic told our devices that were allegedly built for the purpose of changing baby diapers, but I just use them for my backpack since American men tend not to do such disgusting things as changing diapers.
That’s what I meant, BM. For DELIBERATE false accusations the punishment should be at least as severe as that which your intended victim would have suffered.
The current state where you basically get told to never do it again, and maybe a small fine for repeat offenders, isn’t enough of a deterrent for trying to ruin the life of people you don’t agree with.
I’ve said it before and likely will say again here: when we encounter these attitudes, IRL or online, call them out fro the sexist garbage they are.
Is anybody else getting this when viewing Free-Range Kids on Twitter?
“Caution: This profile may include potentially sensitive content
You’re seeing this warning because they Tweet potentially sensitive images or language. Do you still want to view it?”
Thanks BM and JTW. I agree.
Theresa Hall, what in the hell does Trump and Puerto Rico have to do with a dad changing a diaper???
I just saying that if you have some desire to be a hero instead going after dads for changing their kids diapers go out and do some real good like at Puerto Rico. If you should choose that path you be a lot more of a hero then the crazy person yelling at a dad for changing a diaper.
James – your grandfather sounds amazing, truly an avant-garde man in both his beliefs and actions.
SL – I know you don’t want to have the busybody on your radar, so you probably politely answer her questions about why you’re at the park and who your child is, but I really think you shouldn’t answer her, as it’s rewarding bad behaviour, thus encouraging her to do it again and again. When my daughter climbed trees when she was younger, there were times a busybody would say “You know, it’s dangerous for her to climb the tree,” to which I would respond by giving her (it was never a man) a sideways look, and simply saying “She’s fine.” My body language and tone made it abundantly clear that I wasn’t going to continue this “conversation.”
Theresa – now that you clarified why you made the comment about Puerto Rico, I think it’s a nice gesture.
Dienne:
“I’m going to assume you didn’t mean that quite like it sounded.”
I was presenting the argument I’ve heard from others for why they slack off in various activities–sports, academics, business, whatever–as it would apply to parenting. The people who hold this mentality obviously do not share the belief that raising kids is its own reward.
For my part? I’m as active a parent as I can be, given my job’s travel requirements. Diapers, feeding (as possible), reading to the kids, the whole nine yards. I particularly enjoy working with the kids in the yard, teaching them about the biosphere–they love animals, and I can open that world to them in ways they can’t imagine yet. My view is that I’m not above ANY work that needs done. There are things my wife does and things that I do, but that’s because we’re sane–housework needs divided up, even if it’s just the two of you.
Helen Armstrong: I asked my grandfather about that once. He laughed, and told me that he was old-school, that this view that caring for babies was women’s work is actually the new way of thinking; old timers knew that it took EVERYONE to raise a child and care for a family. My study of history seems to agree with that. Crochetting and knitting, for example, were invented by men, and there was a common practice that poultry belonged to the women of the house (not “it’s her responsibility and we get the credit”, but rather “if she makes money, the men don’t get to touch it”). That’s not to say it was a utopian, gender-free paradise; just that the idea of these rigid walls between “Men’s Work” and “Women’s Work” wasn’t nearly as firmly established as–and definitely did NOT follow–modern perceptions.
I’ve seen a very similar attitude in homeschooling groups. Many Facebook-based homeschooling groups actually ban fathers. And I’ve been at Park Days in public parks (not even just a playground — there were nature trails, sports fields, and exercise equipment!) and watched other moms point out every man who came near, asking each other, “What’s he doing here?” I always piped up with totally logical explanations for why he might be here. Guy on his phone? I bet he’s geocaching! Guy in the gazebo? Looks like he’s stretching before a run. Etc.
When I started my own homeschooling group, we specifically INCLUDED dads. One of our most active members is a stay-at-home dad who is the primary homeschooler in his family. ALL dads are welcome at all of our events (and my husband occasionally ducks out of work early to join us for afternoon events). And, unlike every other group I have been in, we don’t have a LADIES’ Night Out. We have PARENTS’ Night Out. It’s sad that we are the exception around here!! These things should be the default.
ChicagoDad, you’re reminding me of when my kids were younger. If I went anywhere alone, someone was sure to ask who was watching the kids! Hmmm. Who could be watching the kids in the middle of the day on a Saturday while I’m grocery shopping. Maybe… their father??? Nah. Too far-fetched!
I also had more than one person jokingly suggest that my husband was another one of my kids. I always set them straight. He was a single dad with two toddlers when I met him. He taught ME a thing or two about being a parent!
And yet I bet this woman complains that the father of her children is completely incompetent and cannot be trusted to take care of the children.
Maybe more dads would take a more active role in parenting if everyone treated them as competent adults who can take care of a child (and a house too) instead of as incompetent man babies who will just screw it up. Or if people would stop freaking out and shouting pervert if a man is in a child friendly space, instead of realising that he is there with his own child. Also there should be better role models on TV, it seems like every family show has a dad who is lazy and clueless with no idea how to do basic household tasks a child should be able to do and whenever there is a reason for the mother to be away for a period of time, it ends with the house becoming an absolute dump with trash everywhere and no chores done and the children getting into some sort of trouble.